Rear disc brakes for 2007?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Priusmeus @ Jul 21 2006, 04:57 PM) [snapback]290163[/snapback]</div>

Well, I really have to rant.

Why Toyota is selling us sub-standard Prius'???

We are the only people that ---
1. have rear drum breaks
2. have no factory-installed EV button
3. have no parking assistant
4. have no daytime running light (and the choice to disable it)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mcsj @ Jul 24 2006, 11:24 AM) [snapback]291414[/snapback]</div>

My understanding is that rear disk brakes add very little to the overall safety or braking ability of the car. From what I've read, front disks are a huge improvement, but rear disk brakes are only an incremental improvement.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mcsj @ Jul 24 2006, 11:24 AM) [snapback]291414[/snapback]</div>

Actually, don't blame Toyota for this one. Apparently something having to do with the EPA certifications of this car as a super-duper low emissions car (I'll trust someone else to come up with the appropriate acronym) means that it can't have the EV button.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mcsj @ Jul 24 2006, 11:24 AM) [snapback]291414[/snapback]</div>

Just how long have you lived in the US? Do you realize how many lawyers are in this country and how litigious our society is? All it takes is one person hitting a car/person while misusing the IPA and Toyota has a big lawsuit on their hands.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mcsj @ Jul 24 2006, 11:24 AM) [snapback]291414[/snapback]</div>

No idea why we don't have DRL. Seems like it'd be a nice thing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mcsj @ Jul 24 2006, 11:24 AM) [snapback]291414[/snapback]</div>

Yeah dammit, and all they give us in return that the rest of the world doesn't get is:

Coolant Thermos
PZEV Rating (That darned Bladder)

Of course, all those folks who have the Daytime Running Lights don't have HID headlights, you know.

You have things they don't, they have things you don't, but hey, why spoil a good rant.

Suggestion though, if you want to Rant try blaming lawyers for the lack of parking assist, and perhaps the EPA for the lack of an EV button.

That darned EPA makes them give us a long warrantee on the Battery. The rest of the world doesn't get that. But, I know you'd much rather have that EV button than the 8/100 or 10/150 warrantee you got, right?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tempus @ Jul 24 2006, 11:34 AM) [snapback]291422[/snapback]</div>

Lots of other people get PZEV ratings... and they even do it with 4 wheel disc brakes.

And I know a lot of people claim the improvement would only be incremental. But when a few feet could mean the difference between an accident and avoiding an accident, I'll take avoiding any day.

Bottom line is: I can't find many other cars, if *any* other cars, that start around 21K and include rear drums. 4 wheel disc is just *expected* in this price range, and anything else is substandard.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tempus @ Jul 24 2006, 08:34 AM) [snapback]291422[/snapback]</div>

No I'll keep the extra warranty and install my own EV button thanks. But I would pay extra for a Prius without the stupid fuel bladder. I would also like rear disc brakes and larger wheels and tires but please don't take my HID headlights.

I think Toyota has had weird ideas of what options go together for a long time. I was looking at some kind of Toyota in the early 80s, maybe a Silica or something like that. I told the salesman I wanted to be sure it had a tachometer, he said he was sorry but the tachometer only came with the automatic transmission. I bought a Honda Prelude.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Jul 24 2006, 01:13 PM) [snapback]291457[/snapback]</div>

References Please.

Edit: For Clarity

I'm asking for a market where the Prius is rated PZEV without the bladder, and has disc brakes.

I'm not asking how other vehicles obtain PZEV ratings.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tempus @ Jul 24 2006, 01:47 PM) [snapback]291472[/snapback]</div>

That, I do not know about.. but I think if other vehicles can achieve PZEV without a bladder, and have 4 wheel disc brakes, and start 2-3K less than a Prius, then the Prius should be able to do all of things at its price point as well.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Jul 24 2006, 02:18 PM) [snapback]291489[/snapback]</div>

Which is a valid question, but irrelevant to the question of comparisons between the Prius in different markets.

US has PZEV and no Rear Discs.

To my knowledge no one who has Rear Discs has PZEV.

That's the point. Toyota giveth and Toyota taketh away in any given market. The US model isn't 'inferior' it's different, based on what Toyota thinks is most important to each market. Seems like they hit the target for the US at least. I've heard other markets complaining that they don't have HID available because their laws require DRL. That's life I guess.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Priusmeus @ Jul 21 2006, 02:57 PM) [snapback]290163[/snapback]</div>

Are we sure that Disc Wheel = Rear Disk Brakes ?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tempus @ Jul 24 2006, 02:38 PM) [snapback]291504[/snapback]</div>

But why does toyota stick markets with vehicles that are inferior in some respects? You can have DRL + HIDs, but toyota doesn't want to make the effort. You can have PZEV + 4 wheel disc brakes, but toyota doesn't want to make the effort?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Jul 24 2006, 02:51 PM) [snapback]291514[/snapback]</div>

Effort?

It's a cost/benefit equation.

You could also have power seats, but that would add cost and weight.

Why does any manufacturer look at any market and decide what features to sell in that market at what cost?

HID and DRL would require two bulbs in the headlight assembly, with concomittant increase in cost, weight and complexity.

In the US most people don't care about rear disc brakes in a car that isn't intended (or pretended as the case may be) for high performance. It's a fact you may or may not like, but Toyota knows their market.

Rear Drums have essentially no performance penalty over discs unless you are carving corners with heavy braking which could result in fade.

You keep implying that rear discs would make the prius stop shorter or better in normal use. I simply do not believe that.

But, the bottom line is, effort has nothing to do with it. Market Research and Target Audience are what drives this kind of choice.

You may not be happy with the choices Toyota made, well, in fact you make it abundantly clear that you aren't happy, since your posts are essentially re-phrasings of at most half a dozen complaints over and over. Perhaps you aren't the US target demographic for the Prius. That's life, but it doesn't reflect badly on the Prius or Toyota's choices.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tempus @ Jul 24 2006, 03:01 PM) [snapback]291518[/snapback]</div>

I don't care about power seats, at all. I am curious as to why Toyota has a part (rear disc brakes) and just doesn't put them in all markets.

Would anyone complain if US models got rear disc brakes? Bueller? Anyone?

What if it were 200 dollars more?

Didn't think so.

And my complaints are not about the technology (when it works). I just wish my Prius were a nicer car. I don't see why it couldn't be. And I don't see why saying that is a bad thing.

 

This is starting to remind me of an April issue of a car magazine I read as a kid.

Comparison
Corvette vs. Chevette
only seats 2 -- seats 4 or 5
bad gas mileage -- good gas mileage
attracts police -- no extra tickets
costs about 3 times more -- could buy three with the same money, carry more people, more luggage, and use no more gas

I hope nobody bought a Prius because they didn't think they could find a car for the same price that would brake, handle, and accelerate better.

I'd have been happy to pay a couple hundred more for disk brakes, but I value the VSC and ABS more.