Red Alert - Battery Mileage Varies on Prime Models

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by Sue Case, Jan 6, 2023.

  1. Sue Case

    Sue Case Junior Member

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    So you say to yourself, I really want leather seats with the Prime XSE and willing to pay extra for that along with other XSE upgrades. But "Beamsley" just posted on Prius chat really, really bad news. If you order the 2023 Prime XSE you only get something like 32 miles on the plug-in battery and not 38 to 40. Insane

    Now I'll see if I can attach Beasley Canadian Prim trim stats but it clearly says the XSE get 53 KM off battery which is 32 miles. If you want the higher mileage quote of 38 to say 40 miles you have to order the Prime SE which comes with cloth seats and 17 inch (smaller tires). The SE is the base level trim package, yet Toyota is acting like its being rewarded with greater battery range. Wth?

    Toyota is pulling a fast one here if the car manufacturer is giving the impression that the XSE and top line trim XSE-Premium has 38 miles to 40 miles/range of "free" battery usage versus now just 32. I mean you pay $3,000, $5,000 or what ever plus in upgrades (over the base model) and then find out you get less driving range battery usage.

    Man something is "rotten" in Denmark.

    https://attachments.priuschat.com/attachment-files/2023/01/231422_E02E6936-5155-47EE-AF3D-4B83322D20CE.jpeg
     
    #1 Sue Case, Jan 6, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2023
  2. Hammersmith

    Hammersmith Active Member

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    Why is this a surprise? Think it through for a second. Mostly because of the larger wheels, the XLE and Limited get about 5mpg less than the LE. Did no one think this wasn't going to have a similar effect on the battery range of the XSE and XSE Premium over the SE?

    If max efficiency is your top priority, get the LE/SE. If creature comforts are a higher priority, get the mid/high trims. Personally, the XSE Premium has my name written all over it and I've got no problem with the range. 32 miles is way more than enough if I plug it in every night(or even every other night).
     
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  3. Sue Case

    Sue Case Junior Member

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    Prime was advertised as offering 38 miles off battery juice to the masses. Or shall I clarify "Toyota said that the Prius Prime will provide more than a 50% range increase versus the outgoing model. Given its EPA rating of 25 electric miles, that could translate to 38 miles or more for the new model". No where did I read that Toyota said only their base model (SE) would be only level to offer 38 miles battery range. The perception was all models/trim levels would offer the 50% battery range increase over last years Prime model. So now we know that wasn't true.

    In either case Toyota would be smart to offer upgraded leather seats for SE model (for an additional fee) versus just saying "if you want maximum battery milage on the base model, enjoy the cloth seats that might not hold up over time. Tacky
     
    #3 Sue Case, Jan 6, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2023
  4. Sue Case

    Sue Case Junior Member

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    Throw in the misleading MPG average using 91 octane fuel in "fine print" but hoping buyers think MPG reading was from using 87 octane gasoline. See the pattern.
     
  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Prius Prime isn't the only case of this. Look at the MPGs of other models and brands too.
     
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  6. beamsley

    beamsley Junior Member

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    Extra features add extra weight. This doesn't just apply to the Prius, as fuzzy1 mentioned. The leather, the larger 19" rims, the power seats, the glass roof, etc. - this will add a significant amount of weight and leads to a less efficient vehicle. It's just physics at play here.

    For comparison, I drive an MX-5 Miata and it is significantly quicker off the line and gets better mpg than a Corolla. The both cars have a 4cyl engine with roughly 150HP. The difference? The Miata weighs 2341lbs and the Corolla weighs 2722lbs.

    On an EV or PHEV, weight has an even greater impact on range than on a vehicle with an internal combustion engine. The only way around this is to add a larger battery and electric motors. However, this would add significant cost and may not fit the Prius, seeing as they already cannot accommodate for AWD due to the limited space for an electric motor over the rear axels.
     
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  7. JoeBlack

    JoeBlack Member

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    TBH, I am not surprised in the slightest. If I go with Prius PHV 2023, I will definitely try to beg at dealership for wheel "upgrade" from 19" to 17" or be defeated and will shell the cash and buy 17" set (which is insanely expensive).
    One of the best comfort making "things" on a Prius PHV 2016→2022 are those 15" tires ... not to mention how it affects the range. + Good luck finding good 195/50 r19 tires when the OG ones need a replacement in a few years.
     
  8. Hydrocket

    Hydrocket Member

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    Same here. Different Prius for different priorities.

    I never expected the heaviest weight Prius with options and big 19" wheels would be as frugal as a base model on smaller wheels.

    I'm willing to give up some mileage for options because that range falls within my commute.

    If your ultimate goal is EV motoring, the less equipped models are the way to go.
     
  9. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Hold up there... while I prefer leather seat covers myself, I've seen plenty of 20-year old cloth Toyota seats that held up just fine. Not like the rest of the car is going to last that long anyway.

    And then: It's not that hard to get factory cloth seats re-covered in leather. Outfits like katzkins and clazzi have pretty much turned it into a kit, and good Toyota dealers know about it and can even coordinate installation. Note that there could be a delay for '23 availability since it's a new design.

    This is how many thousands before you solved the "leather in the base model" problem. If you come up with something better, I'd love to hear about it.
     
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  10. mountaineer

    mountaineer Member

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    It would have been nice if the 19" tires were an option on the higher trim levels, rather than a requirement.

    It's quite a conundrum for me, as I've always valued driving economy and have regarded all the bells & whistles as mostly tech that can fail, requiring expensive repairs. But now I'm middle aged, so I'm required by law to get the midlife crisis package. Can one fight it?
     
  11. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Hey, you can always post a want-to-swap. Somebody is going to buy a base model and be upset that the fancy wheels weren't an option.

    It's a drag that the factory can't accommodate, and most dealers aren't interested in the extra work involved but this stuff is possible.
     
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  12. mountaineer

    mountaineer Member

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    That's an interesting possibility I'll inquire about.
     
  13. beamsley

    beamsley Junior Member

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    I can't seem to edit my previous post but these are my further comments.

    I really don't think Toyota is being misleading, at least not any more than the other manufacturers. Given that their original estimate came from a press release where not all details were finalized, it doesn't really make sense to take it all as gospel. The 50% number was used before they had EPA approved figures, and was intended to highlight the capability of having more range than the outgoing model.

    I'm more interested to see actual real world testing with different wheels/tires to see how much they impact the range. I'm planning to try and fit 16" wheels on there and throw some Michelin CrossClimate 2's on so I can rock this thing year round on a single set whilst reducing weight.
     
  14. Sue Case

    Sue Case Junior Member

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    So I think we can now safely say the base model Prime SE will be the "Big Seller" since so many here hate larger size tires and want the 38 to 40 battery driving range. Toyota might be right saying they might not build that many Prime Plug-ins. At least in the XSE and Premium level.

    Any chance someone could order the XSE with everything but request 17 inch tires? Heck the smaller size might just bump up battery mileage range to 35 or 36 miles. And I'm assuming the smaller size tire cost less than the larger size. Life is so complicated.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    why are there 2 threads on this?
     
  16. Sue Case

    Sue Case Junior Member

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    One is for Canadians and the other for U.S. (sic)
     
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  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Patron saint of newly poured sidewalks

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    US an' them lol.
     
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  18. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I could see an individual dealer taking steps to facilitate this if appropriately incentivized, but I really can't imagine anyone upstream getting involved.
     
  19. daisy555

    daisy555 Active Member

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    This post is about battery range being slightly lower on Prime SXE model. So driving Prime as a hybrid will definitely give me less mpg than driving regular Prius XLE? The extra weight of the second battery?
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Neither did Toyota say the 57mpg was just for the LE at the time. They may not have specified it that was city or highway at the time.

    That fine print has been on some Lexus for years.

    Here's a secret. The fuel used for EPA testing isn't gasoline. It is a defined blend of hydrocarbons. While they are found in gasoline, no consumer gas pump dispenses that blend. The octane of it is also 93. Same is true for CARB testing, except the octane is 91.

    Another secret. The 91 RON on pumps in most of the world, including Japan, is equivalent to the 87 AKI on US pumps. Early window stickers of the first Tundra had 91 under octane because of RON to AKI confusion.

    People that did a PHEV conversion to the gen2 saw improved hybrid fuel economy. Same with the old Prime, which actually has a slightly better EPA than the Prius. A bigger battery lets the hybrid operate for longer periods with the engine off, and does a better jog of recapturing energy when braking. Without a plug, it just isn't cost effective to install that bigger battery.

    Now, there is a point at which adding battery capacity stops helping hybrid efficiency, and the weight starts hurting it. Can't say if the new Prime has gone past it. I won't bet on it being worse than the equivalent Prius though.
     
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