Reduce Max. Current while DC Charging with CHAdeMO

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by Plugin_RK, Nov 5, 2022.

  1. Plugin_RK

    Plugin_RK New Member

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    If you are using a Prius-compatible battery pack from a different vehicle e.g. rav4 ev or nx450h+ etc., then perhaps you should consider the corresponding parts for a charging system from that other vehicle rather than a Prius PHV charging system? You've probably thought of this? Perhaps the software control from the Prius is going to govern it and that's why you'd like Japanese CHAdeMO settings for software tuning?

    Also, the US is using Type 2 CCS connectors (I think?) rather than CHAdeMO for fast DC charging - since I have CHAdeMO will there be significant differences to be considered?
     
    #21 Plugin_RK, Nov 12, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2022
  2. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    The FAQ item linked in the other thread refers to fast charging (kyūsoku jūden, 急速充電). In other FAQ items and in the Prius PHV Owner’s Manual linked above, Toyota uses this phrase only for CHAdeMO DC charging. AC charging—whether at 200 V/16 A, 200 V/8 A, or 100 V/6 A—is referred to as normal charging (futsū jūden, 普通充電). See, for example, the illustration of the normal and fast charging inlet connectors, items ① and ③, page 96; the charging time table, page 131; and the main coverage of fast charging, pages 154–161.
     
  3. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Active Member

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    get the mx+ it has enhanced diagnostics... its what you see in techstream as codes returned.. all other obd2 devices only show generic codes.
     
  4. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Active Member

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    no CHAdeMO in a Toyota at all in the US spce'd cars. I have Gen1 PHEV Prius US Spec ECU and Japan spec Ecu, since I have USspec PHEV, with the Japan spec Gen 2 PHEV ECU, its have a sample set of data between the two to reverse engineer what I will use the ECU writer I have. For instance, the whole push and hold ev button to charge gen 2 phev battery with the engine, I want on my gen 1 phev.
    I went with Prius versus tryng another car 6.6kwh charger as all the wires would be the length I need. heh.. didn't want to extend or cut any wire as that introduced potential issues.
    The prius ecu is smart... its my beleif, it should learn and adapt to whatever oem parts I plug into it...
     
  5. Plugin_RK

    Plugin_RK New Member

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    Does your comment also apply to the AUTEL Maxi AP200 series (versions.C, H,and M)? A very recent thread on PriusChat has an interesting debate on OBD2 access at Gen2 OBD2 app review | Page 2 | PriusChat, which refers to both the OBLink MX+ and the Autel AP200. The Autel AP200 appears to be cheaper to purchase but requires annual payments so will be more expensive over the years presumably.

    The PanLong for Android is probably much more limited but since it is way cheaper it may be a good choice as an every-day scanner, refer Hybrid battery diagnostic and repair tool for Toyota and Lexus, with the more expensive scanner for detailed work only.

    Do you know if the OBLink MX+ and the Autel AP200 (and the PanLong for Android) are bi-directional? It appears they can cancel some alerts but my current goal/desire is to drop the max DC charging current from over 70Amp to about 50Amp. Is there any chance one of these 3 devices might manage this? Or do I need an ECU writer or some other OBD2 device? (Once I have an OBD2 device I can help with your project too.)
     
  6. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    Even an inexpensive OBD II code reader, useful only for engine and emissions diagnosis, requires bi-directional communication: the diagnostic tool sends inquiry or command messages to the vehicle, and the vehicle replies.

    For your specific goal, the first question is whether Toyota has defined a “customize parameter” (their term) for DC charging current—in other words, some message that a diagnostic tool could send to produce the change you want in the car’s charging behavior. If that doesn’t exist, then even a Toyota Techstream diagnostic system wouldn’t be of any use, and the third-party tools, which generally use information licensed from Toyota or reverse-engineered from Techstream, wouldn’t be, either.

    An ECU writer, or any other kind of reprogramming device, would likewise be useful only if someone has created a new version of the firmware that you could download into the ECU or determined some other method of making the change. As far as I know, no one has reported having done this.

    OBD II (spelled thus by EPA, CARB, and SAE, by the way) refers to a well-defined subset of on-board diagnostic capabilities required by emissions regulations; charging is totally outside its coverage.

    [Edited to add:]
    If I were going to spend the time on this problem myself, I wouldn’t take on the tedious job of reverse-engineering firmware, which at best might provide a solution for a few models that are already or will soon be out of production. Instead, I’d design the device of post #3, get the necessary safety agency approvals, and sell it as a “CHAdeMO Charging Optimizer,” compatible with any vehicle using that standardized interface.
     
    #26 Elektroingenieur, Nov 19, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
  7. Plugin_RK

    Plugin_RK New Member

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    Yes, I was a bit vague, intending to refer to being able to change any/all of the "cutomisable parameters".

    I am (/was) hoping there is a setting to lower the max. charging current a bit. I'm getting the impression that this setting isn't available, possibly without Toyota's direct involvement. Especially so if it is outside the scope of the OBD2/OBD II coverage.

    Agreed, I personally won't attempt reverse-engineering, both due to the time and effort involved but also as comparatively little added benefit over the current automation. (Nor attempt a new version of the firmware.) Agreed too, a more widely applicable device as per post #3 would be a better alternative.

    Best of all would be if Toyota includes this option in a firmware upgrade, or even just in future EV models to further reduce battery issues and reduce loading on infrastructure. A menu position to limit DC current further by a quarter/third/etc (compared to their present max. DC current) would do the trick i.e. similar to the existing menu position to limit AC current to 200V/8Amp, etc.

    Thanks for the note on "OBD II" as the correct, formal notation. Presumably "OBD2" is in wide spread usage as "OBD II" might seem ambiguous i.e. "OBD eleven" or "OBD two" (correct) or even "OBD ii" (but with capitals) or "OBD LL" (but with lower case). I imagine many writers adopt "OBD2" for clarity (and brevity), or because that's what they've read and just continue with it.
     
    #27 Plugin_RK, Nov 19, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
  8. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Active Member

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    soo ummm.. i can write the ecu... what are you trying to do? ive gone down this path with the installation of the m20a-fxs into my 2013 phev. writing additional params to the plugin ecu to control the motor where the oem ecu wasnt coded. I also have the japan spec phev whihc has more power and longer range... plan now is to obtain a japen spec phev from the gen 4 and compare all. I really want that use the motor to charge battery feature on my gen 3 now.
     
  9. Plugin_RK

    Plugin_RK New Member

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    My goal is to reduce the max. DC charging current by about quarter to third e.g. from 74A to 50A for my Japanese import PHV. I was hoping there's a "customize parameter" for this which is accessible via OBD2.

    I'm happy to help with your project. As previously indicated we've a Japanese, imported Gen 2 Prius PHV. I believe these are based on the Gen 4 Prius Hybrid.

    To get started I've already ordered the much cheaper PanLong for Android OBD2 connector, which should now be on its way. If necessary, one of those more capable ones mentioned in Post #25 above may well become necessary.
     
  10. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Active Member

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    wait.. unless I missed it, where are you located? I swore someone tried to tell me by a guess they had and I disregarded it... why do I feel you are on the west coast of the USA like I am? You say you imported and the only other place with a pacific coast is Japan... help me here.. even if I have to cross water, I needz to put my hands and cable on your Prius. :) If you could get the part number to your ecu... that would be lovely actually as to do any changes, Id like to have one to work on and not touch your oem ecu other than to make a backup to use for programming the one purchased for writing... if you found a way to order one based on your vin from a dealership... it might cost but if you're willing to split it I am all for it! Its the first step into either of the goals we are after...

    from what you are trying to do, you can't do it through the obd2 port. my attempts were all met with walls I couldn't break through and many many obd2 devices, you need the other thing I have which connects directly through an opened ecu... panlong id returns it... no benefit to you at all. even to monitor through an app, the hardware isn't good enough to even have a high frame/refresh rate to a smart device to log data...
     
    #30 black_jmyntrn, Nov 22, 2022 at 2:56 PM
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2022 at 3:03 PM
  11. Plugin_RK

    Plugin_RK New Member

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    The question of how populous the countries bordering the Pacific are has always interested me, so I thought I'd make a rough estimate. Here's a brief outline of Pacific countries with coastline (populations are bracketed).

    Countries you mentioned:
    - USA (332mill), Japan (124mill)
    Total population 456mill

    Still on your side of the water (perhaps implicitly included by you?):
    - North America: Canada (39mill)
    - Middle Americas (incl. Mexico)(217mill)
    - South America Pacific coast: Colombia (52mill), Ecuador (17mill), Peru (32mill), Argentina (47mill)
    Total population 404mill

    On the other side of the water from you (countries with populations over ca.1mill, excl. Japan):
    - Australia (26mill), Cambodia (16mill), China (1,411mill), Indonesia (256mill), Malaysia (34mill), New Zealand (5mill), North Korea (26mill), Papua New Guinea (9mill), Philippines (109mill), Russia (147mill), Singapore (6mill), South Korea (52mill), Taiwan (24mill), Thailand (70mill), and Vietnam (104mill)
    Total 2,295mill

    And the Pacific Islands together have perhaps another 2mill ("guesstimate").

    The indicates that 5 times more people live in countries with coastline on the other side of the Pacific from you than covered in your duo Japan and USA. The Pacific coast is a big, well populated place. It really is "miles" easier for me to send you info and copies as required - there are literally many 1,000's of km (/miles) of water and waves in-between (answered in Post 11 above). Let's remain in digital contact for mutual assistance initially.
    OK. When the Panlong arrives I can send whatever useful info it provides. I hope at least to get battery temperatures and current flows along with some monitoring. Slow logging would be a useful. It's a first dabbling into the world of OBD's, ECU's, etc.

    Second hand ECU's for a approx.2018 Prius seem to go for $500 to $1,000 on eBay - does this seem likely to you?
     
    #31 Plugin_RK, Nov 26, 2022 at 5:00 PM
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022 at 5:10 PM
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