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Replacement for alternator?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Godiva, Aug 11, 2008.

  1. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    Didn't know where to put this so decided news.

    30 year old space technology could improve fuel economy.

    "Researchers are competing to meet a challenge from the U.S. Department of Energy: Improve fuel economy 10 percent by converting wasted exhaust heat into energy that can help power the vehicle."

    "The DOE, which is partially funding the auto industry research, helped develop a thermoelectric generator for a heavy duty diesel truck and tested it for the equivalent of 550,000 miles about 12 years ago.

    John Fairbanks, the department's thermoelectrics technology development manager, said the success of that generator justified the competitive search in 2004 for a device that could augment or replace a vehicle's alternator. Three teams were selected to participate in the program, with GM and thermoelectrics manufacturer BSST separately working on cars and a team from Michigan State University focusing on heavy-duty trucks."


    "The technology is similar to what NASA uses to power deep space probes, a perk being it doesn't seem to be susceptible to wear. Probes have used a thermoelectric setup for about 30 years.


    Thermoelectric devices can work in two ways _ using electricity to provide heating or cooling, or using temperature differences to create electricity."


    "The thermoelectric generator works when one side of its metallic material is heated, and excited electrons move to the cold side. The movement creates a current, which electrodes collect and convert to electricity."


    "Fairbanks said thermoelectric generators should be on the verge of production in about three years."
     
    #1 Godiva, Aug 11, 2008
  2. RonH

    RonH Member

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    I'm too lazy to research this, but tech that is space worthy for 30 years, truck worthy for 12 years and still needs 3 more years to verge? Something must be fundamentally wrong with it. Other than being a good grant getting tech.
     
    #2 RonH, Aug 11, 2008
  3. chogan2

    chogan2 Senior Member

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    I think that's the same Peltier junction technology that's used in 12-volt coolers. The description certainly sounded like it. Put electricity in, you create a temperature differential across the junction; put a temperature differential across the junction, and it generates electricity. So the technology has been around for a while, and you can buy some products with it now. I think the issue must be the expense. It would be be impressive if they really could make these cheap enough to replace alternators.

    They claimed 5% fuel economy savings for a Suburban. Which, at 150,000 mile vehicle life at $4/gallon gas, would make the savings worth $2000 plus the cost of the alternator it replaces. So, they have the technology to do it, it generates $2K in lifetime fuel economy savings, but it's not being done yet -- suggests to me that those gizmos are probably pretty expensive.
     
    #3 chogan2, Aug 13, 2008
  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    That is exactly what they are. In space work, the heat is supplied by radioactive decay. The devices are very simple, and not all that expensive. The cost goes up when you add the heat exchangers and regulator electronics. With more efficient engines, there is less waste heat, so you get into a point of diminishing returns.

    Tom
     
    #4 qbee42, Aug 13, 2008
  5. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Engines may be more efficient because of smaller size or use of Atkinson cycle, etc., but 85% off the BTU capacity of gasoline is wasted as heat either through combustion or friction. Imagine how far a gallon of gas would go if you could capture 90% of this energy. Imagine engine blocks, cylinder heads, exhaust manifolds, downpipes, midpipes, cats, and cat backs coated with a layer of this stuff that can recapture most of the wasted heat and turn it into electricity. On water cooled engines, I'll bet there's a way to capture a lot of this from the water. Imagine a different sort of radiator that creates electricity based on the temp difference between air and water?
     
    #5 sorka, Aug 13, 2008
  6. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    Maybe that's why they say it will be 2-3 years before they have something mass marketable?

    Now if they get this thing to replace the alternator....isn't that less moving parts? How often does an alternator have to be replaced? Would replacing the alternator with this thing also increase mpg? (even a little?)
     
    #6 Godiva, Aug 13, 2008
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