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Reselling from ZEV state

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by PA Prius, May 4, 2012.

  1. PA Prius

    PA Prius Active Member

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    Does anyone here have experience or information on someone from a non-ZEV state purchasing a "used" Zero Emissions Vehicle from one of the eleven ZEV states? What are the limitations and/or requirements, e.g. how long does it need to be registered to the owner in the ZEV state?

    PA P
     
  2. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I think maybe you need to clarify your question. Any car can be purchased used as soon as the original buyer drives it off the lot. There is no waiting period.

    What's a ZEV state? Anybody, in any state, can own a zero-emissions vehicle.

    If you are asking about tax incentives, state laws vary by state. The federal tax credit for buying an EV applies only to cars purchased new, and held long enough that the IRS does not suspect that it was purchased with the intent of re-selling it. States that give state tax incentives are likely each to have their own requirements to qualify for the incentive.

    Maybe if you clarify your question, someone who has an answer will respond.
     
  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I would check with the manufacturer to find out about warranty and service issues, otherwise there should be no problems.

    I think California is the ZEV state, as it is the one that uses the term. They and a subset of other CARB states that impose mandates are the ZEV states.

    Down here in Texas we just call them electric, fuel cell, or cng vehicles. I heard a fight between a guy in a ev versus one with a modified wvo truck in a bar. Hell both are good in my book. I'm not sure whether used vegetable oil or electricity is better both, but I prefer both to gasoline. In ZEV speak that WVO is bad, since its not regulated or taxed and things come out of the tailpipe that CARB hasn't studied yet. There are federal and state incentives on the cars, but in ZEV states there is a mandate that is ever changing on how many the manufacturers must produce. This gets reflected in pricing and service differences.
     
  4. PA Prius

    PA Prius Active Member

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    Correct austingreen. There are eleven ZEV states. My understanding is that there are some Zero Emission Vehicles that may only be sold in these states due to the incentives given to the manufacturer for each vehicle sold in that state. I think it is $4000. per vehicle. Someone correct me if I am wrong on this.

    I would like to purchase one of these vehicles, but do not live in one of the eleven states. Some of the sales persons have suggested I have a friend in a ZEV state purchase the car, then resell it to me. I don't want to do this if it is not permitted. I don't want any surprises. Therefore my questions from the first post--
    What are the limitations and/or requirements, e.g. how long does it need to be registered to the owner in the ZEV state?
    Another question - who would apply for the $7500. federal tax credit-- me or my ZEV state friend?

    PA P
     
  5. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    The only way it might be illegal for your friend to sell you the car would be if your friend signs a contract saying he will not sell it out of state. (Or saying that he won't sell it at all.) Otherwise they cannot prevent you from buying it.

    However, NOBODY gets the $7,500 federal tax credit, because a car purchased for re-sale does not qualify (I phoned the IRS and asked, at a time when I thought I might buy a Leaf and wanted to know the restrictions on selling it), and only a car purchased new gets the credit. Thus when your friends buys it to re-sell it, your friend does not get the credit, and you've purchased a used car, which does not qualify. You can phone the IRS to verify the above. They are very friendly and helpful when you phone with questions.

    States may have their own laws regarding their tax incentives, so those may or may not apply. I don't know any of the state incentives except that here in WA EVs are exempt from sales tax. So for the state laws you'd have to specify what state your friend is in, and find someone who knows the laws for that state. A tax accountant in that state should know, or you could phone the state revenue department.
     
  6. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Call Steve at AutoBeYours and see if he is selling the Leaf that he is rebuilding.
     
  7. PA Prius

    PA Prius Active Member

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    seilerts, I'm guessing his Leaf would not be in my price range. I would not be expecting him to be selling for less than half price.

    daniel, a dealer told me the $7500. federal tax credit goes by the VIN. As long as the credit wasn't claimed on the vehicle before, then I can claim it. Does anyone have experience or more knowledge on this?

    PA P
     
  8. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    The IRS has not even ASKED for a VIN to document the taking of any of the credits. Their audits found that credits were claimed even though cars weren't bought. (Now that's a real surprise!) If I wrote the regs I'd want a copy of the registration.

    The credits apply ONLY to new vehicle sales. The used car may have a reduced manufacturer's warranty.
     
  9. PA Prius

    PA Prius Active Member

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    JimN, the form used to apply for the tax credit, IRS Form 8936, Part I, Line 2 asks for Vehicle Identification Number. I am not trying to be obnoxious here at all, just wanting clarity before I jump.

    PA P
     
  10. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I'm going by what I was told when I phoned the IRS. I suggest that before you "jump" you do the same. Describe what you want to do and ask them about it.

    I've been told a lot of untrue stuff by car dealers. Some of it was probably intentional lies, and some of it was well-intentioned ignorance, but car dealers are one of the most unreliable sources of information.

    The IRS phone number is 1-800-829-1040. They are friendly, and one of only two reliable sources of tax information regarding federal tax rules, the other being a competent tax accountant. If you are afraid that they are going to trace you and use your question to trigger an audit, call from a pay phone. They will not ask you to identify yourself unless you request a written decision, which then becomes binding on them.

    Of course you can claim anything you want on your taxes, and you might get away with it. But a car purchased used does not qualify, and a car purchased with intent to sell does not qualify, so in your scenario nobody gets the tax credit. But do not take my word. Phone the IRS. It will take a few minutes of your time to get a definitive answer. Then you can decide if you want to screw with the IRS.

    Or you could tell your "friend" that he can claim the credit, get him to sell the car to you that much cheaper, and then let him take the heat and pay the fines if the IRS finds out he sold the car right after buying it.

    Or why not go to the state and buy the car yourself and ship it or drive it home? You won't get the state's incentive, but as original buyer you get the federal tax credit. There's no law that says you have to live in a state to buy a car there. Lots of folks have bought Priuses out of state.
     
  11. PA Prius

    PA Prius Active Member

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    Buying new via out-of-state friend continued to feel quite questionable. I was able to get a used Think City from out of state, which feels all above board. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts on this.

    PA P