1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Retrofitting another car.

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Godiva, Feb 5, 2006.

  1. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    10,339
    14
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    So it's a few years or decades from now. Whatever.

    I used to own a 1961 Cadillac Sedan de Ville. With fins. I love fins. I loved that car. I only used it on weekends and housed it in my garage. Had to get rid of it because I needed to park my daily driver there due to increasing decline in on street parking. I miss that car.

    So lets say its' the future and I won the lottery and have money to burn....what would it take to put an HSD system in an old Cadillac or other car? Let's say money isn't an issue. Find a junked Prius or two in a salvage yard for parts.

    What would it take to modify an HSD system and put it in the Caddy or other model car? Let's say the computer could be reprogrammed for the extra weight, et al. The Caddy has a huge trunk space so let's say that's where all of the batteries would go.

    Have at it.
     
  2. tumbleweed

    tumbleweed Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    4,067
    687
    0
    Location:
    Eastern Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Just did a quick estimate, I think you could do it for about $200,000 if your willing to do most of the work yourself. :)
     
  3. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    1,208
    0
    0
    And, If I get enough money to burn as you say... I'm gonna put a hybrid system in .... Nothing...

    I'm gettin a hummer and I don't care what it costs to fill up at the gas station and I'm not commuting to work, so I wouldn't burn that much anyhow.

    A 61 caddy with all that steel and a 1.5liter hybrid system would barely have enough umph to go 40mph on a down hill with a tail wind. Might get 20mpg..

    It would be one of the only front wheel drive caddy's in the neighborhood.
     
  4. jef

    jef New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    84
    0
    0
    Location:
    Inglewood (Los Angeles county), California
    An interesting idea.

    While a top speed of 40 mph downhill is probably an exaggeration, your '61 caddy probably wouldn't have very good performance with the Prius HSD. The way to go might be to buy a brand new Highlander hybrid rather than looking in junkyards for Prius Parts. After all, why scrounge when you can buy new and not worry about the money.

    Because of the way the system is designed, you'd have to replace all engine, transmission, and drive parts on your Caddy with the HSD and reprogam the computer like you said. It really would be hard to do this well. The proportions of the drive would be completely off with the different wheel base and width of the car.

    But, since money is no object, you could hire experienced hybrid engineers and have them build you a custom system from your Highlander parts or ones they designed themselves. It would work better than repurposing a drive train from a completely different vehicle.
     
  5. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I think you could get it done for just under $100,000 if you're willing to put the body of your car on the frame and electronics of the Prius.
     
  6. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    10,339
    14
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Well, I know the Caddy and the Prius are different sizes and the Caddy is a lot heavier. You couldn't just put the body of the Caddy on the Prius. And I know parts would need to be customized for the Caddy. Between the engine, transmission and brakes you're basically gutting the Caddy and then making fit. And a new dash would have to be custom fit to house the Nav et al. I'd like to keep the original wheel though; I liked the feel of that wheel. And hopefully the glovebox and some of the knobs could be reused. I really liked the way the antenna went up and down when you pushed the radio knob. I'd make sure to keep that. I would put in new speakers and an AM/FM with CD player. That car only had AM.

    Hadn't thought of using Highlander parts but OK. As long as it's HSD.

    If the Highlander engine isn't powerful enough, how powerful and engine would I need for an ICE and how much torque for the motors to move the Caddy? I figure the ICE wouldn't need to be the same as the original engine since you'd have the electric motors as well. I'm thinking in this "future" there would also be more options for both the ICE and electric motors than now. There would also be better batteries. Maybe more powerful, smaller and lighter. Maybe I'd be able to keep some of the trunk space.

    The point of the exercise is to make the Caddy more fuel efficient than it would originally be. Better gas mileage and less emissions. Getting close to the same performance would be desirable. It wouldn't have to get the same mileage as the Prius, but would need to get better than an original 61 Caddy. I'm thinking I could at least double the mileage. Maybe from 15 mpg to 30 mpg.

    I don't think $100,000 - $200,000 is unreasonable for this kind of custom job. What's the difference between spending that on this custom project and wasting the same amount of money on a new, ostentatious car like a Rolls Royce or Ferrari or something? If I'm obscenely wealthy I can fritter away my money any way I like...right?

    Would the HSD from the Lexus 400H be better than the Highlander? Which car is heavier? Or maybe they'll be another option. Are the Vans with HSD in Japan as heavy as the Caddy?
     
  7. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    611
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    oh geez... just put the hy-hi setup in one. that will probably work just fine
     
  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,953
    16,170
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Yeah and you'll get a 4wd 61 Caddy haha.
     
  9. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    4,147
    18
    0
    not sure about the early Caddy but a fwd Toro or Eldo shouldn't pose that big a problem using the Hi-Hy 2 wheel drive power train and if you've ever looked under the hood of one of them you'd realise you can put the battery there as well. I mean the hood is almost as long as a Hi-Hy. And the Eldo had a 500 cubic inch V8 and tranny in there. A little V6 and the psd and battery no problem. Someone know it you can get the Hi-Hy without VSC? that would make the brake conversion a whole lot easier. This would be a project spanning several months in my estimation. Cubic dollars would make it possible for sure.
     
  10. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    10,339
    14
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Yeah, under the hood of a Caddy....I think a family of four could live comfortably. It's more than double the area of the Prius. But I wouldn't put everything there. I'd still put the batteries in the back if for nothing other than balance. You don't want ALL of the weight under the hood.

    It's amazing. I owned my Saturn when I owned that Caddy and the engine compartment of the Saturn was efficiently packed to the gills. The Caddy was a wasteland of open space. I couldn't believe how much empty area there was. Of course mechanics loved it because they could get their hands in everywhere without scraping and bumping.

    I can imagine how smooth that car would ride with an HSD. It was an automatic and there wa always that jerk when it shifted. And I don't think I'd miss the growling rumble of the engine at all.

    I think I'll add this to my "if I ever hit the lottery big" fantasy wish list.
     
  11. jef

    jef New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    84
    0
    0
    Location:
    Inglewood (Los Angeles county), California
    The Highlander HSD should easily meet your expectations.

    The 61 Cadillacs had the big 390-cubic-inch V-8 with either 325 or 345 horsepower. The 2006 Hi-Hy 2WD has "only" 268 hp. But consider the efficiency of those 268 horses - they sprint from 0-60 in 7.0 seconds and they can carry a gross weight (vehicle + passengers + cargo + towing) of 10,280 pounds.

    I think you'll feel the get up and go because the electric engine has maximum torque right when it starts and in the Highlander acceleration has an electric assist added to the V6 engine. The Caddy's V8 doesn't hit 345 horsepower until it gets to 4800 RPM.

    That 5700 pound Highlander gets an EPA rating of 33/27. The Cadillac is more aerodynamic, and with the weight of the HSD added its original 4700-4800 pounds will probably still a be a bit less than the Hi-Hy. You should be able to at least match the Highlander's numbers.
     
  12. DaveSheremata

    DaveSheremata New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    249
    15
    0
    Location:
    Arlington, Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV

    My thinking exactly. Not to mention that you're probably going to save a lot of weight in the Caddy with the lighter block and lack of a transmission. SInce you're going this route anyway, may as well shave another 200lbs with new rims and low profile wheels and a custom carbon fiber hood and trunk, modern gastank - I bet you could *easily* wind up 1500lbs lighter on the Caddy.
    Of course, harder than all this is the programming. There could be an advantage to keeping the car heavier and using the mass to regenerate *more* power than you normally would, but I'd imagine that'd take a little software tweaking.

    I hope you're serious about this - because it could be a REALLY cool project. Hybridizing it alone would make it a news maker - and once you got a system running, then increasing the battery capacity and torque in the motors could turn the car into a real headline-maker!

    Cheers!
    Dave