1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

revisions

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by galaxee, Jun 14, 2009.

  1. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    464
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    i am revising my dissertation in response to the expert's comments. (the expert is my boss. she's freaking brilliant at writing. which means i simultaneously adore and hate her right now.)

    i have read this massive document about 17 times now. some sections, more than that. i am so sick of it. i would be ok if i never saw it again.

    not much longer to go, but i think my brain is going to implode. i've already worn out a touchpad on my almost-brand-new laptop, if the keyboard goes i'm going to call it done regardless of where it stands...

    :boom:
    arggghhh

    thanks for listening.

    PC's very scarce friend,
    g
     
  2. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

    Joined:
    May 21, 2007
    6,038
    707
    0
    Location:
    Tumwater, WA USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Dr Galaxy, you will be :p
     
  3. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,232
    1,562
    0
    Location:
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Hang in there, my friend. You can do it. :)
     
  4. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    639
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Oh, I've had that "brain about to explode" sensation a few times myself while finishing my degree. I'm also fairly certain it wasn't from the drinking, either
     
  5. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I'd offer to help with the writing, except that I'm sure I would not understand a word of it. Hang in there! I presume that if you're in the revision stage you're almost done. That's wonderful. Will it be possible to download a PDF of it once it's finished and it's been accepted and you are Doctor Galaxee?
     
  6. PriusLewis

    PriusLewis Management Scientist

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2009
    1,002
    84
    7
    Location:
    Denver Metro
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    NO! You're supposed to be telling me how EASY this is, how meaningful, fullfilling and rewarding it is! I was just accepted into the Doctoral program, and everyone is making me think I should have volunteered for duty in Iraq instead...:eek:

    You'll make it - it would be rediculous to get this close and not finish (think of all that wasted effort!). I'll send the cheerleading squad to boost your morale. RAH! RAH! RAH!

    :cheer2::cheer2::cheer2::cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:
     
  7. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    5,270
    37
    36
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    My brain exploded just from trying to format my wife's dissertation. We finally sent it off and paid $150 to have a pro do it because we were sick and tired of measuring spaces and margins to the 1/32 of an inch! I don't think I've come across a more anal group of people than those that proof someone's dissertation.

    "Dr. Galaxee" that would be one cool handle! :nod:


    Wildkow
     
  8. samiam

    samiam Antipodean Prius Poster

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    2,442
    29
    14
    Location:
    Enn Zed
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Getting the writing as perfect as you can prior to submission will make it easier for the examiners to provide you with substantive comments instead of raising silly (irrelevant) or difficult questions because they've misunderstood what you've done or said.

    Also, hate to mention it, but... this probably won't be the last time you are asked to revise it. There will undoubtably be revisions to make after the defense/oral examination. One of my PhD students just had his defense last Thursday (he passed) and he has some revisions to make - not too many - none too serious (as his supervisor that's my job in the meeting). The main thing is its been accepted and the revisions can be judged as satisfactory by myself.

    There are much worse grading categories that an examining committee can select, and making the manuscript as clear and easy to read as possible helps to avoid them.
     
  9. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    464
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    i do intend to make this thing pretty kick-nice person. it's just an insane amount of work to get there. my boss is great at helping me present my best side, and she's one of the few people who's really pushed me this hard. some days this is great, some days i want to run away.

    well, no rest for the wicked... ;)
     
  10. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,232
    1,562
    0
    Location:
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I think I've got the 'no rest' part covered, too, but when do I get to be wicked? :p
     
  11. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    2,369
    978
    70
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, California
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    You understand of course that the dissertation is part science, part hazing. As long as you can separate the two, you'll do ok. Hang in there.
     
  12. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    464
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    hazing
    heavy intellectual beating
    sadness and devastation
    tedium
    the true test of whether you want this stupid degree badly enough to write a 150-page document describing and justifying every move you've made for the last 5 years...

    whatever you want to call it, i will be happy when it's in shape to hand over to the committee. it's slowly getting there.
     
  13. samiam

    samiam Antipodean Prius Poster

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    2,442
    29
    14
    Location:
    Enn Zed
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    150 pp seems a little light, 5 years a little long ;-)

    Seriously though, there is a recommended length for PhD theses (dissertations) at most universities. Here it is "no more than 100,000 words" - which works out to about 300 pp (dbl spaced, 12 pt font) which is pretty standard for many english-speaking institutions world-wide. EdD theses are usually 60,000 words, and MPhils are 50,000.
    The word lengths are university requirements, regardless of subject area. These are maximums, though they do provide a target. The alternative I've seen is where a student must publish 3-5 research articles in peer-reviewed journals to make up the PhD thesis, but even then, the background, connective chapters, and discussions are added to bring the completed work near the 100K standard.

    No, I'm not saying you need to write more Galaxee (in fact its more difficult to write clearly and succinctly than simply spew words onto the page), but have you checked whether your university has a recommended length for the PhD thesis/dissertation?
     
  14. samiam

    samiam Antipodean Prius Poster

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    2,442
    29
    14
    Location:
    Enn Zed
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    While you're looking up those word lengths Gal (or cursing me under your breath), here's a story from the "olden days" for you.

    When I was writing my PhD thesis (over 25 yrs ago) I decided to be clever and write it using a computer! This was pretty novel stuff at the time, but after having gone through many revision cycles with my masters thesis, typing the thing over and over on an IBM selectric, I reckoned using a "word processor" would save countless hours. The computer I used for data collection was not appropriate because it had a teletype/photo reader interface and didn't have any word processing software. The mainframe I used for data analysis was not appropriate because CPU time was too expensive and the printed output was not of sufficient quality. So I got access to a PDP 11-04 running the UCSD P-system, and it had a rudimentary word processing program. For the printing I got the use of a daisy-wheel printer called a "Diablo" which produced selectric quality printing on tractor-feed paper (the printer looked like a black selectric and was sold by Diablo systems, a division of Xerox).

    It all went pretty smoothly, through the many iterations & revisions that accompany a work of that size. I was feeling pretty smug in fact.

    Then came my "deadline", and the pressure increased (as it does). In order to have the thing reproduced, bound, and distributed by the time required for my defense/oral examination I had to have the finished work to the printery at 9.00 on a Monday morning. Sunday night found me working in the lab, making my final revisions to some of the Results sections and the General Discussion section (based on early feedback from a couple of members of my internal committee). At 3.00 am the unthinkable happened. The daisy wheel broke! The letter "r" had snapped off - from fatigue no doubt - only about two pages from the end.

    What to do? Daisy wheels had to be ordered from the supplier (about 2 days couriered from the distributor). The printery had already given me a "rush" schedule and would not only not be able to wait, but because of other jobs in the queue would likely add about two weeks to the production date if I didn't have the thing there first thing Monday morning.

    A little panicked? Yes. There was no alternative but to rewrite the last two and a half pages, avoiding all words containing the letter "r". (Try it, it turns out to be one of the more indispensible letters in the English language.)

    Well I did it. On time. Nobody ever noticed. Nobody ever knew, except for my wife and close friends. Until now.

    So good luck with those revisions Galaxee, and spare a thought for us old timers.
     
  15. PriusLewis

    PriusLewis Management Scientist

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2009
    1,002
    84
    7
    Location:
    Denver Metro
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Even then, it was those pesky software pirates (AR-R-R-R-R!). They used up the "R". :D

    I remember the Diablo - not bad for a tractor feed printer.

    I also remember line-editor word processors. At the time you were writing your paper, companies like NBI were making dedicated word processing computers with pretty good software. Such niche products were fine at the time, but went by the wayside when a truely multi-programmable solution came along. For home use, that would be the TRS-80 (and others) running CPM operating system and a Motorola 68000 chipset (I still am upset that the non-multi-tasking Intel won out over the 68040 - I can just imagine what Motorola would have done with the 68000 series with the market and money Intel had).
     
  16. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    464
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    no word count requirements. in fact, some in the field might say my thesis is a bit long. (the common gripe is that nobody wants to have to read something that long!) the quality of the content is the important part, which i think is pretty solid.

    i can't imagine having to deal with such cumbersome technology! i'm quite fond of my laptop, word (ok, grudgingly so), pubmed, and endnote (another grudgingly). that was pretty smooth, managing to work around the lack of the letter r! i am duly impressed :)

    phd times are increasing across US universities... NYT describes results of a 2005 NSF study:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/03/education/03education.html
     
  17. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Before going to Mexico to study Spanish in the exchange program, I took a class called "Introduction to Mexico" which consisted of one three-hour class per week, with a report due each class, and a term paper at the end. Since I had dropped out of college years before without completing my first semester, I had never written a term paper. I spoke with the lead professor for the course (which had a different lecturer each week) and got some useful advice.

    I wrote my paper on Diego Rivera, and I had footnotes within the footnotes. The professor gave me an A and told me that if this was really my first term paper, I should go on and get my doctorate. I told her I would if she could get me admitted to a doctoral program without getting a BS or BA degree first.

    When I consider what Galaxee has had to go through, I'm kind of glad she (my professor) didn't (get me into a doctoral program).
     
  18. samiam

    samiam Antipodean Prius Poster

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    2,442
    29
    14
    Location:
    Enn Zed
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Lucky girl. I've got two on my desk now for marking (I'm the external examiner for both). One from Victoria University that is 272 pp, the other from University of Auckland at 462 pp!

    Clever girl! You are of course quite right - its the quality of the work that matters.

    Postgraduate completion times are increasing worldwide. But its our job as supervisors to keep you lot on task. Here we try to get them through the PhD in 3-4 yrs (post-masters), both because of the tuition costs (most scholarships only cover 3 yrs at most) and because the Uni actually gets paid the bulk of its money only when the candidate sucessfully completes their PhD.
     
  19. samiam

    samiam Antipodean Prius Poster

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    2,442
    29
    14
    Location:
    Enn Zed
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I think I would make that illegal if I could ;-)
     
  20. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    How do you even manage to read that much stuff?

    My professor seemed to like it. I did it on purpose because I figured it would make it seem more "academic." :D

    Actually, while the grade was an ego-booster, grades were meaningless to me. I had enrolled in a Spanish class for no other reason than that I wanted to learn to speak Spanish, and I took the Intro to Mexico class because it seemed like a good idea to learn something about Mexico before going there.

    IOW I just wanted to learn stuff. I could have blown off the term paper, but it seemed like fun, and "if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right," which meant as "academic" as I could make it, thus I footnoted my footnotes. Actually, I think I only had 3 or 4 footnotes within my footnotes.