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Revisiting the Jetta TDI

Discussion in 'Other Cars' started by Bob Allen, Oct 11, 2005.

  1. Bob Allen

    Bob Allen Captainbaba

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    This is a rehash of a subject that comes up periodically in these forums. My partner drives a 2002 Jetta TDI, on biodiesel, and we have friendly comparisons being made at the dinner table. His biodiesel guru, and former supplier (until he began making his own) is of the TDI/biodiesel group who believes hybrids are BAD. Apparently, if you log onto the various TDI chat rooms, there is A LOT of anti-Prius sentiment...even more than there is anti-TDI comments on Priuschat.

    I like to think that we are all part of the solution, not competitors for a prize. That said, however, I went on line and found this link to a forum on automobile reliability by make and model. When the webpage opens up, there will be a Google box in the upper left quarter of your screen. If you type in "Jetta TDI" (or any car model), you will get commentary from owners about their cars.

    Sadly, the commentary about VW is not very favorable, overall. For the 2004 Jetta TDI, the reviews are mostly positive; it's reviews on cars with a few years under their drive belts where the problems surface. Check reviews for 2001, 2002 and 2003. The problems go across model lines and many of them are body/mechanical problems, not necessarily diesel engine related. The VW Beetle, diesel, has similar problems to the Jetta, which you'd expect since they have virtually the same engine. And I say "sad", because I think the Jetta is (potentially) a great car and would be if it had a better maintenance record. I want all of us who are concerned about energy use to succeed, and I think biodiesel has a big part to play in helping us out of the energy crisis. It's incumbent on VW to rise to the challenge and improve their quality.

    The web link: http://www.carsurvey.org/review_81126.html

    Bob
     
  2. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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    Diesel and biodiesel are much dirtier than gas-electric Prius.

    nuff said.

    Is it a cool idea put crap or used vegetable oil in your tank and make your car go? Sure... is it clean? Unlikely.

    Both are working toward freeing us from foreign oil, but Hybrids do emissions better. AT-PZEV and SULEV don't apply for diesels.
     
  3. Bob Allen

    Bob Allen Captainbaba

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    Not so. Biodiesel is vastly cleaner than petro fuel, diesel or gas, and is CO2 neutral, which the Prius is not. Biodiesel has great detergent capability and will clean the sludge out of diesel engines quite rapidly, which is why it's necessary to change out fuel filters often when first converting. Other than the filters, there is no conversion "hardware" involved. We've done some research which shows that my partner's Jetta is an approximate environmental equal to my Prius; he scores better on CO2, I score better on other emissions.

    There is a good amount of misinformation on both sides of the Biodiesel/Hybrid debate, fueled (no pun) in part by the bad rep diesels have because of poor quality engines in the past, and dirty fuel. And there's some prejudice as well, as if each side believed the other was stealing the thunder. For us, the question is do we support "alternative fuel technology" or "alternative power train technology"? As a life partnership, we've opted to support both.

    My point, however, is that if biodiesel technology is to really catch on, we need a source of reliable diesel engine cars. Apparently, the diesels sold in Europe meet higher pollution and reliability standards than the models available to us. I'm happy with my Prius, but I respect what the other guys are doing, too.
     
  4. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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    So your Jetta is a SULEV then?
     
  5. Potential Buyer

    Potential Buyer New Member

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    I don't think you understand how biodiesel works, and this is the kind of misinformation Bob was talking about.

    We exhale carbon dioxide. Farts release methane. Rotting organic matter releases other pollutants.

    Petroleum, on the other hand, does not pollute because it's buried safely underground.

    When you burn organic matter in such a way that the only pollution generated would have been generated anyway, you are effectively a perfectly clean vehicle.

    When you extract chemicals that used to be safely buried underground, and you burn them very cleanly such that only 5% of its pollutants actually escape into the atmosphere, you are still not a clean vehicle -- you're polluting.

    Now biodiesel isn't actually perfectly clean, it just is regarding certain chemicals... but don't kid yourself that a hybrid is clean. It's just cleaner than other petroleum-burning cars.

    There's alot more information on it here. It's not perfect but it's a good alternative fuel to use for the time being.

    As for my opinions, I feel biodiesel or biodiesel mixed with low-sulfer petrodiesel is a much better fuel than gasoline. But hybrids are not gasoline-specific and a biodiesel hybrid would be best of all.
     
  6. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    The new Jettas (not the TDI) are PZEV.
     
  7. EricGo

    EricGo New Member

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    I am reasonably sure my understanding of biodiesel is correct, but please correct any errors:

    CO2: is complicated. If the source for the fuel was made using fossil fuel dependent fertilizer, then no net CO2 reduction. If the source is a product that would decompose faster than aerosolized CO2, then partial reduction.

    Nox: Much higher than SULEV

    Particulate Matter: Much higher than SULEV.
     
  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Not on all places. It's ULEV here. Also, they were talking about the TDIs anyway :p

    By saying that the Jetta is PZEV and hence equal to the Prius, you might as well mention the Camry, Focus, Accord, Sentra and loads of other PZEV vehicles that are available to a select states. And that only applies to the petrol version.

    Besides, should you be comparing the Passat TDI? Either way, both have poorer fuel consumption than the Prius although 8.0L/100km city for the Passat TDI is very impressive and so is the 6.0L/100km city for the Jetta TDI. It's still off my average of 4.5L/100km city.
     
  9. Bob Allen

    Bob Allen Captainbaba

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    Go to the National Biodiesel Board's website and you'll find info about biodiesel and emissions. Site is: www.nbb.org

    Under "fuel fact sheet", there's info about emissions.
     
  10. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Can the Jetta TDI or any other diesel vehicles be sold in California?
     
  11. Potential Buyer

    Potential Buyer New Member

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    No, not anymore. You can go to Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, etc., to pick one up, but you'll have to register it there as well, which of course requires a home address there (or a friend's address or whatever). Last I heard, the car cannot be registered in California until there's at least 7500 miles on the odometer.

    EDIT: New ones, I mean. I'm sure used ones with 7500+ miles can be sold in CA without a problem.
     
  12. AndyTiedye

    AndyTiedye New Member

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    But they'll let you buy a new diesel Hummer in CA (because it's a truck). Go figure.