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Rookie Question:"B" Drive

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by MNPrius, Oct 23, 2005.

  1. MNPrius

    MNPrius New Member

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    I'm wishing I joined this forum way before I got my new Prius, but oh well. [ And BTW - I did know about the tax breaks for both this year and next year, but couldn't wait!! ]

    However, I have a question about "B". I think this is my Dad's version of putting the car into low gear to slow it down prior to stopping. I can only do this occasionally as there is a lot of traffic here in Mpls MN. However, if you do put it in "B" can you only switch back to "D" at a complete stop with foot on brake?? [ok, yes I am female and no, I never used a stick shift]. :lol: Thanks in advance for the help! :D
     
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    To answer your question, you can switch back into D mode 'on the go' with no danger at all.

    To answer your question you didn't ask...There is little need to use B mode. The only time it is really of any potential benefit is for very long steep downhill grades. Almost any other use will result in reduced gas mileage and a lot of confusion when the car starts acting weird if you forget to put it back into drive.

    I've had my car over 2 years, I played around with B mode in a lot of different circumstances, and can now count on one hand the number of times I've used it in the last 6 months.

    You've got lots of other things to learn about making your Prius work the best for you...don't worry about that B mode at all until you've mastered those--it's almost completely useless.
     
  3. Wayne

    Wayne Active Member

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    You will rarely use 'B' mode unless you are in a mountainous or high-incline area. It is similar to downshifting a normal car, as it uses engine braking to help slow the car. However, it is NOT a mode you would ever use in Minneapolis...
     
  4. MNPrius

    MNPrius New Member

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    Thank you Wayne and Evan! Esp. answering the real question I didn't ask :p Good to know I don't have to tinker with that. Thanks much!
     
  5. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    I have used 'B' three times all three coming down major passes in the Rockies and Cascades (briefly, they are not the Rockies). For smaller hills using D and braking lightly is a better strategy.
     
  6. asinn

    asinn New Member

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    just want to know, will putting the gear into "B" will help the car charge the battery more?

    does anyone know how to charge the battery to the max? I can never drive the car to charge it to the full ..... always one bar to go till the max
     
  7. taaustin

    taaustin New Member

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    One time when it can come in very handy is in a near-emergency stop. I've had someone stop-dead in front of me on a major highway, for no obvious reason.

    Whapped it down into B and stood on the break - was AMAZING how quickly the Pri managed to skid to a stop.

    Perhaps I imagined it, but I don't think so.

    On a related note I saw a sign in a tiny little Texas town on a county-highway (backroad) that stated clearly, presumably for truckers but I guess for those in the know it could have applied to me - NO ENGINE BRAKING IN CITY LIMITS.

    First time I'd ever noticed such a sign.

    Terry
     
  8. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    After 25,000 km, I pretty much ignore the B mode. I used it quite a bit at first, thinking I was regenerating energy and using less gas, but I was wrong. I don't use it now even down the big hills, like the Rockies. Either I let the speed build to carry me up the next hill, or I use the brakes.
     
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    NO it will not help charge the battery more.
    Yes I know how to charge the battery to the max. But I won't tell you for fear you'll do it--the process is wasteful as it converts gas to electricity with inherent additional losses. You car is programmed specifically to resist charging the battery full (in fact it never can, the 'full' on your display is actually only 80% maximum charge on the battery). This helps preserve the life of the battery and maintains an area to hold more charge should the need arise.

    You will, eventually, see a full 8 green bars...probably this winter as the car maintains a higher average SOC in the cold weather. Of if you don't have winter where you are then you'll see it one day when you have to use the brakes going down a long hill behind another car.

    You can then be excited that you saw it and quit worrying about it. Trust your car is doing the best thing for you and for itself.
     
  10. MBranstein

    MBranstein New Member

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    We have quite a bit of these signs around our community. These signs were put in place because most truck engine brakes are VERY loud and annoying. The Prius is a zero noise engine brake, so I wouldn't hesitate to use it in these zones.
     
  11. taaustin

    taaustin New Member

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    Oh I used it, just to be rebellious.


    Terry
     
  12. MBranstein

    MBranstein New Member

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    I wonder how similar the Prius "engine brake" is to a truck's engine brake. My somewhat limited understanding is that a truck's engine brake is different because of the manor that a diesel engine works compared to a standard gasoline engine. Then again, you can't say that the Prius has a standard gasoline engine.
     
  13. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    My understanding is that engine braking, whether gas or diesel, works by using the compression of the engine to slow the wheels.

    The one time I have found the Prius' B mode helpful is in the snow. (Yes, snow tires would be a safer option, but they're hard to justify in a place that snows maybe twice a year.)
     
  14. mjapplewood

    mjapplewood Junior Member

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    At my local dealership, I ran into a guy who is a trainer at Toyota's regional training center in Tucson. Matt Something-or-other. He was driving an '05 Prius and says he is known as "Mr. Prius" to other Toyota employees. The guy gave me a 10-minute tour of features I had never seen or heard of before. He told me the B setting does charge the battery, and if you tap B twice, it charges at a higher rate (and slows the car more).

    I have used "B" on downhill slopes in the mountains (I'm in Colorado) and there is no doubt in my mind it charges the battery. Once the battery is on the top bar while in "B" mode, the engine makes a fairly loud revving sound until you take pop it back into "D". I now use B on off ramps and whenever I have to decelerate from a fairly high speed, like in rush hour or coming up to a light. Admittedly, I am playing a bit, but my battery indicator is usually pretty high. I'm just not sure what that gets me.
     
  15. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    I have not seen anything about "tapping" B twice. Is there any source for this other than a comment? Any one with a Scanner that can confirm this in a G2 (classic) Prius?
     
  16. Bill Merchant

    Bill Merchant absit invidia

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    I don't think anyone said that B eliminated regenerative charging, just that it doesen't enhance regenerative braking. Going down long hills turns the battery indicator green, B or D, but not N. N might as well mean N(o charging).

    I've never heard of double-tap B either, but I don't believe what I'm told...
     
  17. mjapplewood

    mjapplewood Junior Member

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    My point, supported by "Dr. Prius" (we need to get him on here), is that B does enhance the regeneration. If not, explain the revving sound while in B only when the battery becomes fully charged. B is described in the manual as "engine braking." So the question is whether engine braking adds to regenerative braking. It does.

    Flatlanders may not have the benefit of mountain passes to test this for themselves. I observed it on the downsides of Slumgullion Pass, the Grand Mesa and other mountain drives in Colorado.

    As for the double-tap, try it yourself. It has a more subtle effect than a single B tap, but it is noticeable. I can't confirm the additional enhancement to charging caused by a second tap.
     
  18. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I'm afraid "Mr. Prius" doesn't know what he's talking about. Tapping the B twice doesn't change it's "charging" rate or efficiency.

    And no one claimed that using B-mode doesn't allow charging of the battery when used. The point is that it doesn't charge the battery at any faster rate than braking. To further the point there is no benefit to intentionally trying to charge the battery. Charging the battery is done as a means of recapturing energy that would otherwise have been wasted--be that as heat from friction when braking or heat/unburned fuel from the ICE, or whatever.

    Charging the battery should never be a 'goal' to achieve. Having a high charge on the battery is not a good thing (nor is it a bad thing), but when you are doing more braking than necessary (ie seeing a lot of regen cars on the consumption screen) that is proof of inefficient driving--you're braking too much. Your goal should be to see as few regen cars as possible. This is because you can only recapture a small percentage of the energy used to get you up to speed, it is better to conserve and use that kinetic energy as much as possible by coasting/gliding to stops rather than running up to stops and braking hard, to maximize regenerative braking when you must stop, but to try to avoid coming to complete stops when practical as well.

    That loud reving you hear when the battery is topped of is energy being wasted. The ICE spins to slow the car b/c the battery can't take any more charge. Any braking is being done by the ICE and friction brakes....that is one of the main reasons for not letting your battery charge into the green.
     
  19. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    mjapplewood,
    Not that my 3800 posts on this forum alone and 2 1/2 years of studying all things Prius or my lifetime 52.5mpg over 31k miles or the multitude of articles I've read mean anything, but you are under some serious misconceptions about how your Prius works and why it does the things it does.

    Fact: You can actually regenerate MORE by manual braking (about 60amp) than with B-mode(closer to 50 amp)--this has been measured and proven as a fact.

    Fact: When your ICE spins up that's a bad thing--you're burning gas to drain the battery which does not want to be charged into the green.

    Fact:B-mode is relatively inefficent b/c of the second fact above. RPMs zip into the range of ~2500 rpm and higher once the battery nears a fuller charge.

    Fact: Any time power is converted from one form to another there are inherent losses. Thus when you step on the brakes to regen (or use B-mode which essentially does the same thing) that power must be converted, via the Inverter, to be stored in the battery and a certain portion of that energy is lost in that conversion. When you want to reuse that energy to power the car or start the ICE or charge the 12v battery it must again go through the inverter and you again suffer some finite power loss. Having regenerative braking is clearly better than not having it, but it is still inefficient any time you have to slow down.

    Fact: B-mode is not designed as a means to charge your batter or as a means for routine slowing/braking. It is designed to use the ICE in combination with the regenerative braking to help keep the speed of the car down on very long downhill grades. The same thing can be accomplished just using the brakes, but one's foot/leg tires after several miles.
     
  20. Traanya Drinker

    Traanya Drinker New Member

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    The thing about the B mode I can't stand (but I admit it's my fault!) is that it's too easy to forget to get back into D. I am sure I'm not the only one, though. It really killed my MPG! I don't use it any more!