ScanGaugeII work on 2010?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by taxachusetts, Jun 29, 2009.

  1. mad-dog-one

    mad-dog-one Prius Enthusiast

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    Does this information, or other stored info, make it possible to determine whether regenerative or ABS braking was disengaged by G-force from a bumpy road, as opposed to reduced brake pedal pressure? If either regen or ABS braking was disengaged by G-force, is timing info (time from G-shock to disengagement and time from disengagement to reingagement of the same or alternative braking method) stored and retrievable? Surely the Toyota engineers know the answers to these questions and could reclaim some of their credibility by making their investigation methods and findings transparent. This shouldn't represent a corporate secret, considering that Honda engineers could easily retrieve and study the info in a rented Gen3.

    On a Lighter Note: Perhaps Toyota's marketing staff should follow Honda engineers to car rental lots and get some advertising video of the Honda guys driving to work in a Gen3 Prius. Sounds like a good 60 Minutes investigation or a new career for ambitious pavaratsi. ;)
     
  2. garygid

    garygid Senior Member - Blizzard Pearl

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    G-forces appear to be not involved, or at least not required.
    The "skid-detection" can activate when doing gentle braking on smooth, slippery (wet) patches as little as a foot across (a crosswalk line), or (apparently) by a "pothole".

    It appears that the "skid" detection turns off the regen-braking for about a second (with no apparent ABS operation), resulting in a significant loss of braking for 20 or 30 (or more) feet past the very brief "skid-detection".
     
  3. adrianblack

    adrianblack Member

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    The Hybrid ECU has a parameter for "regen braking force" in NM ... but it's in a multi-frame response so I can't read it with the SGII... I do not know if this value is actual regen force (which would zero out if the system was turned off)

    There is also another parameter in the skid computer that is called "Regen Cooperation" which is a yes/no entry. I am actually not sure what address the skid computer is on yet, so I am not sure if this is contained in a multi-frame response or not....

    It's certainly harder to detect ABS activation on the Prius due to the EBCS (electronic braking control system) as you feel nothing in the brake pedal. You can only tell it's working from the sound of the ABS solenoids...

    If only I could reproduce this problem myself in my Gen III, as I could datalog with my laptop while making it happen. I've tried and tried by braking over every bad bump, manhole cover and pavement transition I can find. (Where I can safely test it)
     
  4. adrianblack

    adrianblack Member

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    Oh ya, I just added:

    - Inverter Coolant Temp

    And fixed:

    - DC/DC Upper (the RXD was wrong)
    - DC/DC Lower (the RXD was wrong)

    Still working on:

    - battery temps -- it's hard to figure out the correct MTH for them ... Toyota is using two byte temperature readings with a more accuracy than normal. I do know from the service manual the effective range is still -40C to 90C ... same as the other one byte PID's ... but none of the math I try works except some crazy stuff which I cannot implement in a XGAUGE.
    - Wheel speeds passive (not much use really to have these)
     
  5. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    I feel your pain... I can't either. Thanks for the inverter coolant temp!
     
  6. adrianblack

    adrianblack Member

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    It doesn't show any information about regen in the freeze frame data.

    It does show:
    - Activated: ABS or TRAC
    - Steering wheel angle
    - Brake pedal stroke %
    - Accelerator pedal %(for TRAC)
    - Speed
    - Individual wheel speeds
    - Yaw rate
    - G-force
    - Time since event (not sure how this works ... some had here)
    ... and a couple other like indicator status (skid, warnings, brake lights, etc) and a few things things I can't remember. I think some voltages in the brake system.

    So I think it would just be a good indication if the event was categorized as a ABS activation or something else -- plus some hard numbers as the speed and brake pedal stroke.... If there is no ABS activation, or it doesn't match the speed/time of what you were doing, they maybe it's not being logged as ABS and it's some other malfunction.

    Disconnecting your 12v battery will clear out all codes (and most likely history) if you want to be sure you aren't looking at some other data.
     
  7. astrand

    astrand PHEV Guru

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    Is this a guess, or have you actually verified this somehow? If this is true, I suppose that the SOC calculation is performed by the main ECU, and that the battery ECU only sends sensor messages such as voltages, temps, and the current sensor value. In this case, I believe that some kind of indirect SOC altering should be possible, since the SOC is after all based on the battery sensors.
     
  8. adrianblack

    adrianblack Member

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    I looked in the service manual and he's right -- the Battery Smart Unit talks directly to the Power Management Control ECU over a direct two wire serial link. The battery ECU has no CAN or other network interface at all. The power ECU controls the relays and the cooling fan in the battery pack directly which the battery ECU monitors. (And feeds information back to the power ECU.) Battery temperatures and current sensors feed into the Battery ECU. To poll that information you now query the Power control ECU at 7E2.

    The Power Management Control ECU is what controls the inverter to drive MG1 and MG2 --- the only way to alter the SOC would be the intercept the serial link and alter it. Totally possible if it's reverse engineered. The service manual says it's a waveform and to read it use an oscilloscope at this settings:

    2 V/DIV, 500 μs/DIV
     
  9. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

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    The battery sensor is mostly there to monitor the individual block voltages and act as a sanity check. The main ECU already has pack current and pack voltage at the front of the car from the inverter for it's calculations.

    Sorry guys.

    Andrew

     
  10. garygid

    garygid Senior Member - Blizzard Pearl

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    Is there a "x-gauge" to read the Brake (or other) ECU's firmware "version" number?
    I just got the "Skid/Brake" firmware update "installed" today.
    Thanks
     
  11. adrianblack

    adrianblack Member

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    It should be easy to do, actually ... but what we don't know is which byte in the initial responses from the ECU contain the firmware version identifier. What would need to be compared would be the conversation between Techstream and the Skid ECU on a car with and without the upgrade. It's usually in the first command/response string.

    Now, my bigger question is do you feel any difference in the way the car brakes?
     
  12. garygid

    garygid Senior Member - Blizzard Pearl

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    I detect no difference in Braking at all.

    In today's wet weather, with light and moderate braking, apparently I was unable to trigger the skid sensor.
     
  13. adrianblack

    adrianblack Member

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    Hello my friends ... I should be in bed but I just got back from a drive around the block. (It's cold and 45F here in LA!)

    I just found and added three new XGAUGEs to the sheet:

    - Regen Cooperation: On or Off depending if Regen braking is actually happening or not
    - Regen Requested: Shows in NM what the Skid ECU is asking for Regen wise
    - Regen Operation: Shows in NM what the Hybrid ECU is actually delivering in regen braking

    Please note you cannot show both requested and operation at the same time as they come from the same response. For the most part they are the same, but not always. The max regen force I saw was 720NM -- which is quite a bit. (About 531 ft-lbs.) This only occurs when MG2 is at low rpm and can exert a lot of torque -- perhaps from 15-7mph... Though I wasn't graphing vehicle speed.
     
  14. tumbleweed

    tumbleweed Senior Member

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    Three new new ones, great. They should be of value to those interested in the braking problem.

    I have been displaying the inverter coolant temperature reading for the past few days. I'll post results in the xgauge readings topic: http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...ion/75554-observed-temperatures-x-gauges.html
     
  15. adrianblack

    adrianblack Member

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    Hey guys ..... some updates today:

    I added an XGAUGE that is supposed to measure the amount of pressure in the brake system, in MPa (mega pascals.) When stopped, the harder you push on the brake pedal, the higher the number gets. I thought that if I was using regen to slow down, it would read zero, or near zero and then it would go up as you approached zero mph as friction brakes kicked in... But it does not seem to work that way.... so it's not really that useful right now.. If some other people could try it out and see how it looks? Display the RGO XGAUGE at the same time so you can see how much regen braking is actually happening. (By the way, 9 MPa is about 1300psi!) I am trying to determine if the FRI goes up as you come to a stop while you are applying an even pressure on the pedal.

    Next, I have the code to change the headlight auto-off. Thing is the command is long (a TXD of 0750403B1500000000) ... I am not sure the SGII can handle a TXD that long. If you have a ELM327 interface, you can send that string from the > prompt and it will make your lights turn off as soon as you turn the car off. If you change the last 00 to 40, that will set it back to stock 30 second.

    I also added an XGAUGE that will show you exactly how much power (in watts) the A/C compressor is using. It's untested.

    In addition, I have data for (but have not finished calculating math or figuring out which byte to look at):
    - Engine Fuel Cut (on or off)
    - Fuel Level (in liters or gallons)
    - Room temperature (the actual temperature inside the cabin of the car)
    - Max Charge Amount (the max amount of power the battery can accept)
    - Max Drain amount (the max amount of power the battery is ready to give)
     
  16. adrianblack

    adrianblack Member

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    For anyone that is interested:

    Headlight Auto-Off Delay
    B9 to 00= 0s or shuts off immediately
    B9 to 40= 30s after power off

    Set:
    07 50 40 3B 15 00 00 00 00
    B1 B2 B3 B4 B5 B6 B7 B8 B9

    07 50 40 3B 15 00 00 00 40
    B1 B2 B3 B4 B5 B6 B7 B8 B9

    Check:
    Look for B8 which shows the value

    07 50 40 21 15
    07 58 40 61 15 00 00 00
    B1 B2 B3 B4 B5 B6 B7 B8

    07 58 40 61 15 00 00 40
    B1 B2 B3 B4 B5 B6 B7 B8
     
  17. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    I was! Thank you. Now I need to figure out how to put these commands in. :)
     
  18. adrianblack

    adrianblack Member

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    I will test with my SGII ... if the TXD is too long, there will be no way to do it with a SGII and a ELM327 will need to be used. (I bought mine off Ebay for about $26 shipped.)

    I still also need to verify Room Temp F and A/C Power usage which I added to the sheet but have not tested yet.
     
  19. Rhino

    Rhino New Member

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    Silly question. What program do I use to open the spreadsheet? Is it excel. I seem to have trouble and I don't have a lot of experience in this area. [Opps. Never mind. I am using an old version of excel. I'll need to buy new software.]

    The spreadsheet is still located in the same location as stated a few pages back right. Thanks. Sorry for my confusion.
     
  20. walterm

    walterm Active Member

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    You don't have to buy new software - just get OpenOffice for free (a new version was just released) OpenOffice.org - The Free and Open Productivity Suite .

    Then you can download the OpenOffice version of the Google spreadsheet and you're all set. OpenOffice also reads/writes Excel/Word/PowerPoint-format files too, so you can use it as your only Office suite if you want to avoid paying altogether.
     
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