1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Sensible Gasoline Boycott

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by SteveS, Oct 28, 2005.

  1. SteveS

    SteveS New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    188
    0
    0
    Location:
    Upper Bucks County, PA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Come check out this post on my blog about my Sensible Gasoline Boycott

    Essentially, the Sensible Gasoline Boycott calls for two things:

    1) It calls for us to boycott all gasoline sold at ExxonMobil stations for 6 months from today - unless it's the only gas you can get, or if you're in an emergency situation. No matter how much they drop prices, even if they give it away. At the same time, however, nobody shouldn't be able to drive, nor should they be stranded because of their participation in this boycott.

    2) It calls for us to continue, and even increase our patronization of these gasoline stations for everything except Gasoline. Buy milk, eggs, bread, soda, cigarettes, lottery tickets, everything there. No gas station should go out of business because of this boycott.

    We have to show ExxonMobil that we are against their gouging the way a free market should - we vote with our feet. As a libertarian, I believe that this is the way our nation should regulate its corporations. At the same time, as a small business owner, we need to show the dealers who sell ExxonMobil's gasoline that we're against the company they buy gas from, not them and their families and workers.

    With a $100 Billion in profits last quarter, ExxonMobil can handle the hit. But, this should send a message to ExxonMobil executives and those who run other oil companes - the people of this nation will take it up the rear no longer.

    When they miss earnings expectations, Wall Street will punish them too.

    Both components of the boycott are equally important, and each requires the other to be successful.

    Come, read, comment, and pass the word. All of us have already made a statement by purchasing (or ordering, in my case) a Prius. Let's take that statement one step further and make a statement about being shafted at the pump.
     
  2. Marlin

    Marlin New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    1,407
    10
    0
    Location:
    Bucks County, PA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Snopes")</div>
     
  3. ScottY

    ScottY New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    1,250
    7
    0
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Since the day I drive the Prius, I never fill up with Exxon or Mobil. Only stations I went to were Shell or BP. I kind of remember going to Sunoco once.
     
  4. SteveS

    SteveS New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    188
    0
    0
    Location:
    Upper Bucks County, PA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    The point here is to hurt ExxonMobil's quarterly profits. I realize that prices at other stations may go up temporarily, but the point is to show these companies that we can and will hurt them. To show them that if we want to, we can send their stock price tumbling.

    Plus, I don't think that everything on Snopes is accurate. I think that this kind of thing could be effective, especially once it catches the attention of the Media.

    How do you or Snopes know it won't be effective? Have you tried it before? We at least have to do something. The only other option is suicide bombings :)


    Not to mention the fact that my boycott has a specific component in it to keep us from hurting the station owner in the process. Which, by the way, I think is just as important - if not more important - than the boycott part.
     
  5. Kiloran

    Kiloran New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    1,225
    3
    0
    I understand the profit was ~$10b with ~$100b in revinue.

    Also, Shell and BP were right behind them in profits.
    Should they be boycotted too.

    I think it would be better to petition our legislators to take back this money through a windfall profits tax.
    --my 2p
     
  6. SteveS

    SteveS New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    188
    0
    0
    Location:
    Upper Bucks County, PA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Maybe eventually they should, but the point is to send a message that we're not going to take this anymore, and that we can - and will hurt them. Maybe we'll have to keep doing this - I refuse to believe that the stock market will ignore a major dip in the #1 oil company's earnings. We have to do something... all the bitching we do about it isn't going to change a damned thing... but maybe... just maybe... something like this will.

    As a libertarian, I ask, how is raising taxes better? Doesn't the government get enough of our money? Now, we need them stealing it indirectly through taxing "windfall profits" ? It's not bad enough they rob our Social Security fund every year for pork, now they have to take the money we spend on gasoline? When does it stop? Not to mention the problem of determining what is a windfall profit and what isn't...

    We are a free market and in a free market the regulation is us - the consumer. We have the power - we get to vote with our feet and our dollars.
     
  7. Marlin

    Marlin New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    1,407
    10
    0
    Location:
    Bucks County, PA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    The point is that you would still be buying Exxon's gas, just not from Exxon stations. And you would be paying more for it.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Snopes")</div>
    Think about it for a minute. Gasoline refineries in the US are already at capacity. If motorists suddenly start buying gas from stations other than Exxon, while keeping their consumption the same, where do you think those other stations are going to get gas from? From their parent companies who would increase their production? How would they do that, since their refineries are at or near capacity already?

    The answer is that the other oil companies would get the additional gas they need from Exxon, who would have excess gas laying around. So, Exxon still sells all their gasoline, but they do it by selling it through other companies. In addition, your boycott would at least temporarily raise the price of gas because you created a supply shortage while not reducing demand. By doing so, you might actually increase Exxon's quarterly profits, or at least make up for anything they lose by selling the gas wholesale rather than through their stations.
     
  8. SteveS

    SteveS New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    188
    0
    0
    Location:
    Upper Bucks County, PA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Think about it for a minute. Gasoline refineries in the US are already at capacity. If motorists suddenly start buying gas from stations other than Exxon, while keeping their consumption the same, where do you think those other stations are going to get gas from? From their parent companies who would increase their production? How would they do that, since their refineries are at or near capacity already?

    The answer is that the other oil companies would get the additional gas they need from Exxon, who would have excess gas laying around. So, Exxon still sells all their gasoline, but they do it by selling it through other companies. In addition, your boycott would at least temporarily raise the price of gas because you created a supply shortage while not reducing demand. By doing so, you might actually increase Exxon's quarterly profits, or at least make up for anything they lose by selling the gas wholesale rather than through their stations.
    [snapback]146759[/snapback]​
    [/b][/quote]

    I think it would have some effect... maybe not as far reaching as we would like, but I think some effect is better than no effect. How do you know unless you try?

    83% of people know you can find an expert to make up some statistic in favor of whatever you want.
     
  9. Kiloran

    Kiloran New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    1,225
    3
    0
    <_< I just don't see how taking my business away from #1 and giving it to #2, #3, or whoever that is behaving the same way, albeit with slightly less success, is going to make any difference whatever.

    <_< I am just as disgusted with the government as you but at least if the government takes it, it would might reduce the huge deficit slightly for a short time.
    --Wishful thinking, but not very.
     
  10. SteveS

    SteveS New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    188
    0
    0
    Location:
    Upper Bucks County, PA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    I do not know, every Shell station I see is at $2.39, but the Exxon up the street is still $2.59. We have to do something...

    And really, the whole government thing... You have to know that they won't pay off debt with it or repay the social security fund with it. It will go to starting another war or researching the mating habits of tree slugs or to not improving levees around new orleans or something else spurious and wasteful.

    (edit) Really, this situation is entirely different than the Prius. No gas company is going to come out with new and clean gasoline. All we can do is try to make a difference. Even if this doesn't result in lower prices and only calls more attention to the issue - productive attention - we will have accomplished our goal.

    How can you all be so defeatist and refuse to try something that somebody who's credentials you have no idea about and who may have some kind of agenda (or just be plain wrong) tells you it won't work.

    I understand supply and demand, but, we have to try something. Like I said, a boycott is first... then come the chest bombs (j/k) :)
     
  11. Kiloran

    Kiloran New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    1,225
    3
    0
    <_< Maybe they'll use it to fund our next unjust war.

    <_< Anyhoo, my point was that Exxon/Mobil is by no means the only culprit.
    They just made more than the others.
    Even if such a boycott were successful in reducing Exxon/Mobils value, we'd just be boycotting Shell and sending business to Exxon/Mobil instead next time and so on.
     
  12. SteveS

    SteveS New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    188
    0
    0
    Location:
    Upper Bucks County, PA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Well, I think that this is the right time for a push like this. Americans are buying more fuel efficient vehicles, so we're reducing consumption. Hopefully, reduced consumption along with one (or more) boycotts of various (or multiple) companies can make an impact.

    Next time, we could simply boycott for another 6 months and add, say, Shell, to the boycott.
     
  13. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    1,617
    2
    0
    Location:
    Xenia, OH
    Steve, give it up. You are grasping at straws now. Your angry thought has failed. If people don't want to buy Exxon gas, they won't. If you are an Exxon stockholder, you want them to. If you don't like Exxon, don't buy their gas.

    Me???? Who gets to define "obscene profits"? If I invent something tomorrow that makes me millions upon billions, do you or the Gov't get to tell me how much is too much? This is a slippery slope.
     
  14. Clar

    Clar Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    151
    2
    0
    Location:
    DC/MD/VA
    I dont know how much damage you will do to Exxon/Mobile company itself, but you are going to hurt the gas station owners.
     
  15. SteveS

    SteveS New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    188
    0
    0
    Location:
    Upper Bucks County, PA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    How is this a slipperty slope? How did I ever, in any way, say that the Government has the authority to define an "obscene profit" ? The term "slipperty slope" would more accurately be used to define the practice of adding additional "windfall profits" taxes. I bet the scum in Washington are salivating at that thought.

    My simple point is that we as consumers already have the right and the responsibility to do things like this. It's the basis of our free market economy. If you don't like something a company is doing, take your business elsewhere. Vote with your feet.

    Are you implying that I as the consumer should be denied the right to organize a boycott of a company that I and those who think like me feel is wronging us?

    That, I think, is as slipperty a slope as a "windfall profit tax".
     
  16. SteveS

    SteveS New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    188
    0
    0
    Location:
    Upper Bucks County, PA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    The boycott has specific provisions in it to keep from hurting station owners. If followed correctly, owners wouldn't be harmed.
     
  17. Marlin

    Marlin New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    1,407
    10
    0
    Location:
    Bucks County, PA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    If you want to show the oil industry that you are not going to put up with their high prices, then you should use the only proven reliable action: consume less gas.

    I see from your blog that you currently drive a car that gets 17 mpg (although you plan to buy a Prius). If everyone turned in their 17 mpg SUVs and replaced them with something more fuel efficient (doesn't even have to be Prius), then that would have a much bigger effect on gas prices than any false boycott that doesn't reduce demand.

    I also note from your blog that you commute 40 miles each way to your work. Might I suggest a shorter commute? Since you are only 22 and Doylestown is not exactly a cheap place to live, I assume you don't own a house yet, but either rent an apartment or live with your parents. Well, it's time to pick yourself up and do your part in reducing gasoline demand by moving into an apartment that is within 10 miles from your work.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Your Blog")</div>
    Here's an interesting fact. In 1999, when you were paying $0.89/gal, crude oil cost around $17/barrel. Yesterday, when you paid $2.39/gal, crude oil cost around $61/barrel. So between 1999 and today, gasoline prices have risen 268%, but crude oil prices have risen 358%.
     
  18. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    1,617
    2
    0
    Location:
    Xenia, OH
    Steve, I must have missed your point. Your initial call to organize a boycott is right on, I thought your arguments after that pointed to how "someone" should make others agree with you. I am a libertarian at heart. We vote with our wallet.

    However, I see no inherent "wrongness" in their profits. Thus, I would not support a boycott.
     
  19. Marlin

    Marlin New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    1,407
    10
    0
    Location:
    Bucks County, PA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Well hell, with that kind of price differential, you don't need to organize a formal boycott, as it will happen naturally instead. Just go to where the gas is cheapest and the rest will follow.
     
  20. SteveS

    SteveS New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    188
    0
    0
    Location:
    Upper Bucks County, PA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    No problem, Schmika, misunderstandings happen with mediums like this - not a big deal :)

    I would like to point out, however, I don't think there's anything "wrong" with their profits, either. I do think that there are a lot of people who think any profit by companies is "wrong"...

    However, I do feel that the price I'm paying for gas is unfair and is more than I should, and I'm trying to do something about it. I don't think there's anything "wrong" with their profit per se, I just think they are charging more than I feel to be fair and I want to give them an incentive to lower it.

    I think there's a fundamental difference.