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Featured Shareholders Concerned About Toyota Anti-Electric Car Lobbying

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by PriusCamper, Apr 21, 2021.

  1. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Happy Earth Week!

    If you look at the financial planning and long term investments Toyota has made it makes sense that they will only maximise profitability if they sustain the fossil fuel-hybrid electric transition market as long as possible.

    But when it comes to basic social responsibility and a fast approaching new era of electrification Toyota is not aging well and their shareholders are starting to measure an increase in risk / cracks in Toyota's long term plan. As per this article posted today:

    "Toyota is feeling some pressure to change this strategy from large funds, which are investors in the company. Jens Munch Holst, chief executive officer of Danish pension fund AkademikerPension, one of the funds backing the effort, said: “This move must not be a PR exercise but instead signal a clear end to its role in negative climate lobbying which has given it a laggard status. ...Right up until now, the company has repeatedly undermined climate action, from opposing the U.K. government’s ban on internal combustion engines by 2030 to opposing car fuel economy standards in the US.” The fund is prepared to sell its shares of Toyota if the company doesn’t change its lobbying practices.

    Reuters reports that Toyota is actually reviewing its anti-climate lobbying practices: Toyota “will review public policy engagement activities through our company and industry associations to confirm they are consistent with the long-term goals of the Paris Agreement,” it said in a statement, adding that actions will be announced by the end of this year.

    What is there to review exactly? You guys are lobbying on the wrong side. Change sides or stop pretending to be pro-climate. I just saved you a lot of money on that review, Toyota. You are welcome." ---
    Electrek:
     
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  2. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That narrative is finally falling apart. Toyota was smart enough to hold off for a better deal and avoided wasteful litigation in the process.

    Those who were impatient or didn't care about the bigger picture were the ones complaining. Think about audience. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that China & Europe are leaving the United States behind. Settling for what CARB had really didn't make any sense. For those of us now trying to adopt those standards (like here Minnesota), the shortcomings are obvious.

    Thankfully, some of that is now easier to see... as of President Biden's address this morning, on Earth Day about the Paris Climate Agreement.
     
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  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    So Toyota was actually pro-climate and environment when they were lobbying against such measures?
     
  4. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Know yer audience . . . . (congress)
    ;)
    .
     
  5. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Yes... You understand it perfectly! It all makes sense now doesn't it? :)
     
    #5 PriusCamper, Apr 22, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  6. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Let me see if I can get this straight.

    California: To sell cars here, you must follow the CARB rules.
    Toyota: We won’t settle for your CARB rules, they aren’t enough.
    California: So you are going to surpass CARB standards?
    Toyota: No, we are going to resist even your insufficient CARB rules, build cars solely for the purpose of meeting those rules.
    USA: Well, you will be meeting our fleet standards, right.
    Toyota: No, we are going to join the lawsuit against those even weaker standards.
    Lexus: Don’t forget about us, we are making commercials making for of plug-in vehicles!

    Everyone: But...you said more needs to be done?
    Toyota: It does, get to it!


    Sigh:rolleyes::(o_O
     
  7. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    I think your version actually makes more sense than them though...
     
  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    "California, through its Air Resources Board, had been working to craft a compromise between the Obama-era standards and a Trump rollback, agreeing with several automakers on a state-based framework. That deal was to increase efficiency by 3.7% annually from model years 2022 to 2026."
     
  9. joewein

    joewein Driving in Japan

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    Sadly, Toyota is pretty consistent about being on the wrong side of history these days.

    Yesterday it was announced that Tokyo Motor Show 2021 will be cancelled due to Covid-19. It was scheduled to take place in late October/early November before the pandemic. During the announcement of the cancellation, Toyota Motor Corp. president and Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association Chairman Akio Toyoda voiced his opposition to a recent announcement by the Japanese government to ban sales of new gasoline engine cars from 2035. According to media reports that ban will not even apply to hybrids (which are also "electrified"), only to gasoline-only models:

    Toyoda also said during the online news conference that the auto industry body opposes the government's policy of banning sales of new gasoline-engine vehicles. "We need to first expand other (technological) options to achieve carbon neutrality. We should follow the right order," he said.

    Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga has pledged to achieve net-zero carbon emissions by 2050 and unveiled the goal of making all new cars sold in the country electrified by 2035.

    Toyoda said he supports Suga's 2050 emissions-cut target, but argued it should be addressed by the efforts of all industries, including the government's measures to increase electricity generated by renewable sources.

    Carmakers cancel Tokyo Motor Show due to pandemic | The Japan Times

    With major competitors such as GM and VW/Audi/Porsche going all in on battery electric, how is Toyota going to remain relevant? Five years from now they will be the company desperate to catch up with VW the way VW today is desperate to catch up with Tesla, but they won't have the battery supplies or the patents or the brand value they will need then, having squandered at least half a decade.

    If Toyota offered a Tesla Model Y or VW ID.4 competitor with the external and internal dimensions and practicality of my current Prius, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. If they keep stalling and bad mouthing BEVs, I'll take my money elsewhere.
     
  10. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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  11. joewein

    joewein Driving in Japan

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    You're looking at the past: The chart shows that buying Toyota stock five years ago was a smart investment. The question however is "where will the company be 5 years from now?"

    We've already entered a time of transition to a zero-carbon future. What is Toyota doing to prepare for it? From what I can tell, the answer is, as little as it can get away with. Unlike GM and VW, Toyota hasn't launched a single BEV model in its domestic market yet.

    They're telling potential buyers of BEVs that the infrastructure is lacking and the technology isn't ready yet. At the same time they're promoting fuel cell cars like the Mirai, a technology that is too inefficient, too expensive and falling further behind batteries on cost every passing year and whose infrastructure is a joke compared to the rapidly growing charging network for BEVs (besides, many of us will be able to charge at home). This tells me they are not serious about BEVs, which is really the only viable alternative to the ICE.

    Toyota's game plan appears to be to hope that tomorrow looks like yesterday for as long as possible. I'm sorry, but that plan isn't going to work, neither for the planet we live on nor for Toyota.
     
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  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    What does this statement have to do with the discussion?

    CARB's standards are stricter than the federal ones. Them maybe not being as stricter as in the past doesn't explain how backing the federal with Trump, even passively, makes Toyota a pro-environment player. If they were, simply stating they favor stricter fleet MPG like CARB pushes for wouldn't cost them anything.

    Toyota cited the safety issues with L-ion as one of the reasons that plug ins weren't ready, even though they use them in non-plug ins. Working on solid state allowed Toyota to deflect criticisms of not offering a BEV. Solid state batteries are still in the develop phase, with several companies, and it will be years before a commercial product comes out, and then years for production to ramp up for a meaningful part of the EV landscape.

    The Panasonic partnership comes after Toyota greatly underestimated Rav4 Prime demand, and had sales restricted by the Li-ion supply they had lined up. Other car companies have already secured such battery supplies for themselves years ago.

    China has forced Toyota into selling BEVs there. Every major car company has to, and the Chinese aren't likely to be swayed by the cries of a Japanese company. These BEVs are like the Rav4 EV, compliance cars. Europe is following China in regards to pushing plug ins, thus why some of these models will end up in some European markets. North America is number three for plug in markets, which is why I don't expect EVs from foreign companies to show up right away, but Toyota's lack of battery supply will put another limit on what comes to market here.

    Toyota and VW swap places every few years. Being number one in sales doesn't really mean anything. GM had it for years, and look how that helps them now.
     
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  13. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Did they underestimate demand or did they look at projections of profitability of existing manufacturing infrastructure if the electric car was successfully suppressed by boosting investments in their government lobbyists? I don't buy their lack of battery supply anymore because all the other car makers aren't showing signs that its a legitimate bottleneck.
     
  14. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    Toyota confirms electric and hybrid trucks are coming soon - Roadshow



    Toyota Beats Volkswagen (VW) as World’s Top-Selling Automaker in 2020 - Bloomberg
    "Prior to 2020, VW outsold Toyota in every year since 2015. But the two companies’ results last year may be indicative of a longer-term trend, according to analysts.

    While VW is expected to temporarily surpass Toyota again in 2021, Toyota is projected to pull ahead each year through 2025, IHS Markit said."


    StackPath
    Toyota Deepens Panasonic Battery Ties in Electric Car Rush


    Toyota's game-changing solid-state battery en route for 2021 debut - Nikkei Asia

    Toyota to Boost U.S. Investment to Nearly $13 Billion by 2021 - WSJ
     
  15. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Lol, A well paid Toyota misinformation lobbyist couldn't do a better job than you... Or maybe?
     
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    problem is, vdub doesn't even sell pickups here, and they can't out gigantic the land cruiser
     
  17. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    I look forward to test driving one.
     
  18. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    What a joke... Look at the dishonest fawning by that motor biscuit link in the "Toyota is Following Through on..."

    "Automakers are betting big that the increasing demand for environmentally friendly vehicles will spur the private and public sectors to rapidly scale up that infrastructure. But Toyota isn’t just waiting for it to happen. The automaker is proactively working with energy companies like Shell, FirstElement Fuels, and Air Liquide to develop the hydrogen."

    That's entirely irrational to say Toyota is doing more than EV car makers by offering an obscure fossil fuel based solution of hydrogen fuel cells when it not only enables the very fossil fuel industry that's destroying the planet to stay in business, but it can't scale globally because Toyota is sitting on all the fuel cell patents that have been proven in a mass produced car.

    As I said, what a joke. You'd have to be real simple to think Toyota is promoting environmental responsibility instead of corporate greed in direct affiliation with the fossil fuel industry...