Featured Shareholders Concerned About Toyota Anti-Electric Car Lobbying

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by PriusCamper, Apr 21, 2021.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I've seen Kona EVs with PA plates. So they were at least selling to people outside those states at one point. I note that the limited states for the Kona EV, and Ioniq plug ins is for the 2021 models. I don't remember such a limit on the site last year, and it is pretty obvious now with the highlighting.

    Hyundai is having a snafu with the Kona EV over battery fires and recalls. It has even discontinued it in South Korea. Coupled with supply problems from the pandemic, and even the Suez Canal incident, this looks like an unintended limitation of availability. A quick skim of the Niro EV page doesn't have such a blatant statement of availability.
     
  2. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Direction? You know that Toyota is simply taking a different approach to get to the same destination, right?

    We all know that dealers are a major stumbling block when it comes to plug-in sales. Tesla wants to avoid them all together. GM has been losing the battle with their dealers. VW is preparing to force their dealers to sell. It's a mess that Toyota is working hard to avoid. RAV4 Prime targets their core customer, drawing attention to the potential. That stir of interest doesn't exist yet from the other major automakers... GM, VW, and Ford.

    It's a build of up demand that's essential, since we still seriously lack infrastructure. Public charging is woefully scarce and sporadically distributed, without any type of consistency for connection or pricing. That secondary mess makes dealer interest nearly impossible. Why bother?

    To address that, Toyota has been quietly refining their plug-in tech and preparing platforms. Notice how there isn't any transition plan for the other major automakers?
     
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  3. Hicksite

    Hicksite Member

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    Both the the Kona EV and Niro EV were only sold in CARB states when I started looking at BEVs a couple of years ago. Of course residents of any state could buy either one through a CARB state if they were willing to travel far enough. And many did.

    Yes, I know Kia no longer has the CARB state disclaimer on their website, but it was still on their website when I was looking a couple of years ago.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    And five to ten years ago, most of the plug in options weren't even available to people outside of California, or an even shorter list of CARB states. Dealers were barred form selling to out of state buyers. That was the case with the Soul EV.

    With limitations on production for many companies, and North America being number 3 for plug in sales, shipping to all the CARB or ZEV states*, and allowing those out of state to buy is a big improvement. Those states plus their neighbors cover a large portion of the US population.

    At this moment, Hyundai is not a good example of plug in availability in the US because of their current problems. An article mentioned that they have ceased out of state sales of the Kona EV at this time. Maybe for Kia too. Checked a PA and NC zip code, and there are Niro EVs at dealers there, but they are 2020s, and car's page Kia's site is 202MY. The PHEV and hybrid are 2021's.

    Things happen, but the trend is moving towards easier access. The PiP was limited to CARB states when it was available, and now getting a Prius Prime isn't much trouble in any state. Except for those in the Gulf and South state regions, but that is a Toyota only issue.

    *for reference, What are CARB states, ZEV states and 'smile' states? Autoweek explains
     
  5. privilege

    privilege Active Member

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    climate change is political BS to force more taxes in people that can't think for themselves.

    Toyota is fine.
     
  6. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    different approach - yes, if being dragged along into the future - kicking & screaming fighting all the way .... yes - they have a different approach.
    Lexus-talking-trash-on-EVs-1.png
    It's the same game politicians use. If you don't have something more wonderful to offer than the opponent - than all you've got for strategy is trashing the opponent.
    No animosity tho - we finally got a line on a RavPrime (silver - due in 1st week of may) that's not price gouged (through a friend of a stealership manager) for no mark up - caused by toyota NOT having sufficient batteries .... IE NOT knowing their audience.

    .
     
    #46 hill, Apr 25, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    This just reminded me of an old comment on the big soda companies. Pepsi ads tend to be "we are better than Coke", while Coca-cola's are simply "we're Coke."

    Congrats on the new car. The Rav4 Prime is a good all around package. Personally, I plan on going BEV plus ICE when the time for a plug in comes, as I'd rather have two tools designed for their individual tasks than compromise on one to do both(the Rav4p would burn gas everyday on my commute). Splitting up my annual miles over two cars means both will last longer.

    Since I don't qualify for the entire tax credit a BEV, or large battery PHEV, would get, my first BEV will be preowned. Planning to buy in a couple years means such a Toyota BEV being available highly unlikely.
     
  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That narrative is old and cherry-picked.

    Their approach is to focus on their own customers, not you.
     
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  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    But @hill was once a Lexus customer.
     
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  10. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Oh there are many of us that used to be Toyota/Lexus customers.
    We apparently aren’t the type of customer John is referring to.
     
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  11. joewein

    joewein Driving in Japan

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    What part of the science don't you understand?

    Climate change is backed by overwhelming scientific evidence, which is why it has become is the scientific consensus worldwide.

    No car company and not even the major oil companies are denying it. All they disagree about is how quickly (or how slowly) we should respond to the threat.
     
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That's exactly what I mean about approach. Notice all the attacks on Toyota which dwell on a past that no longer reflects what has happened since then? They serve no purpose other than to trash the opponent.

    Confirmation of that comes whenever I bring up Toyota's refinement to their motor, controller, and software. Demonstrated by the Prime offerings now, to be shared later with BEV models, there is an immediate effort to divert attention to the supposed shortcomings of RAV4 Prime delivery. It's quite hypocritical knowing Tesla, GM, Ford, and Mitsubishi all struggled with delivery to an even greater degree. It reveals a fundamental problem with the enthusiast perspective. They don't show interest in learning from the past, taking time to force refactoring for a better end result. They just want the new product delivered as fast as possible.

    Toyota's approach addresses industry shortcomings, striving to improve along the way. That fundamental priority difference is how they do business. They simply don't care about speed-to-market rhetoric.
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Agreed:
    Some of us remember the braking anomaly when the Gen-1 would come to a stop ... a discontinuity. Turns out a Volvo hybrid review this week cited a similar problem. We keep seeing traditional automakers following ICE design rules leading to over sized battery packs and inefficient kWh/mile.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The primary critique of Toyota in this thread isn't about the path they have chosen for EVs, it is that they have chosen to fight against anything that hinders their sale of ICE vehicles.
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I’m not criticizing Toyota as every company has a right to pursue their business goals. Just sharing I have different requirements and Toyota and Southeast Region do not offer anything to attract my interest.

    Someday Toyota may want me as a customer. Sad to say, their current product mix, a quality offering within their limits, does not meet my requirements. Perhaps someday.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    It almost seems schizophrenic for Toyota to be touting their upcoming BEV's, all the while fighting BEV's via lobby efforts.
    Toyota lobbies US government in its increasingly delusional effort to slow down electric vehicles - Electrek

    Decades ago, when Toyota feared that GM would leave Toyota in the dust with the first GM hybrid (the GM impact) - Toyota went quickly to Market (relatively speaking) with the Prius. GM never pursued their hybrid and so Toyota became the big dog with efficiency. But BEV's? ... not so much.
    .
     
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  17. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    I thought the quote about it taking Toyota 20 years to sell 4 million hybrids in the USA was interesting.
    I suspect this switch to EVs will happen more quickly, with or without Toyota.
     
  18. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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  19. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    "Toyota wants 10% of its sales in Europe to be electric cars by 2025"

    That away from the article speaks volumes, quite literally. Notice how other automakers are just promoting number of models, not anything with respect to how many actual vehicles.
     
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  20. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    how is it that ..... "number of models" is a bad thing? .... "other automakers" are setting goals of 100% BEV - regardless of the # of models.
    Volkswagen to go all electric by 2026 - Industry Europe
    yes - that DOES speak volumes.
    Comparing 100% to 10%?
    is 10% (better than leaving the market all together) a bold action in light of what other manufacturers are committed to doing?
    Isn't a 10% BEV commitment simply to meet a China mandate?
    .
     
    #60 hill, Apr 28, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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