Side-Topic: RAV4 Prime Engine in EV Mode

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by mr88cet, May 14, 2022.

  1. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Active Member

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    If that happened; I'd trade my Prime in; in a heart-beat. I'd be able to dump my 17 mpg 4x4. I'm getting too old for rock hopping and under-utilizing my 4x4 gears. Eight inch ground clearance and AWD is all I really need.
    I've actually looked at Subaru's; but I can't make the numbers work and the mpg hit is a killer, because it would also become my daily driver.
    Unfortunately; I don't see that happening. Rav4's sell like hot-cakes; even the bottom end stripped-down models - and they hold their value. The only reason I ended up in a Prime; was the federal, state, local, and dealer rebates. It was only $1K more than a Corolla hybrid when I did the bottom line calculations; standard hybrid rebates were exhausted and I prefer hatchbacks.
     
    #21 BiomedO1, May 14, 2022
    Last edited: May 14, 2022
  2. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Perhaps so (EV Auto Mode).

    bZ4X: Mediocre range, pitifully slow DC would-be-fast charging, mediocre acceleration for an EV, and even less available than the RAV4 Prime.

    It’s basically an EV from 3 years ago, to be distributed in nanoscopic volumes. It’s doubtful that Toyota will make any substantial number of them, since they have almost no interest in on the BEV market.

    Ioniq 5 beats it on almost every measure, other than (presumably) reliability.

    I’d prefer to get an Ioniq 5 over a RAV4 Prime, but my wife wants an SUV. Of course Hyundai calls the Ioniq 5 an SUV, but that’s iffy at best.

    That does indeed sound more believable; Google probably dropped my “Prime” keyword for that particular search result.

    So then, do you perceive that O’Toyta has completely ceased making new RAV4 Primes?
     
    #22 mr88cet, May 14, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2022
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  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    It seems more a case that Toyota severely underestimated demand -- or simply couldn't marshal the resources (especially the battery supply) to meet demand once it became known -- and all units in the pipeline now and well into the future, were spoken for long ago.

    The only one I saw on a lot, while visiting in Oregon a year ago, was pre-sold and awaiting customer delivery the next morning, therefore locked up, not for showing. Their wait-list was long enough to cover all new units anticipated for at least six months. When I contacted them over the winter, crickets. The salescritter I had spoken to was no longer employed there, and no one else was interested in calling me back. Looking over on-line inventories, everything I can find within the normal range I'd travel, is 'in transit' and already spoken for.

    My state has no allocation, it wasn't a full-CARB state when Toyota figured its original allocations, so I've looked mostly in OR and NV. And a small sampling in CA, but with the hassles needed to avoid double sales taxation from CA purchases, I haven't bothered looking over the full state. But others seem to have found the same shortage there.

    I haven't much surveyed the East Coast. But the spouse wouldn't mind a trip there to visit old friends, so I ought to look there.

    Someone in my neighborhood did score an Oregon unit last summer, but with substantial effort before locating one, one evening, that another customer had just declined. She could have it if she could be there at shop opening the next morning, so she did. I haven't been that energetic.
     
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  4. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Good real-world examples; thanks!
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The same was true of the Prius Prime when it was released.

    Well, most people that want an SUV really just want a wagon. Maybe they want AWD.
     
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  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The Ioniq 5 has very similar ground clearance to the last gen RAV4 (2013-2018) and the driver's seat is about minivan height? (same as BMW X1 or MB GLA or Toyota CH-R but definitely lower than the current RAV4 or other traditional compact SUVs).

    I'd say "crossover" is a better label - not really a SUV, not really a hatchback but a combination of the two.
     
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  7. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Definitely a better term. Actually, to be fair, I can’t really recall how Hyundai’s marketers describe the Ioniq 5. However, qI’ve seen some reviews that laugh at Hyundai for suggesting that it’s an SUV.

    Actually, what my wife seems to want above all else is a vehicle with a high-mounted driver’s seat.
     
    #27 mr88cet, May 15, 2022
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
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  8. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Referring to the Volt pre-dating the Prius Prime, or referring to the PiP, or…?

    I perceive that the P.Prime is a somewhat different vehicle from both of those: Essentially, the PiP had too little EV range to make much real difference on typical US-drivers’ commutes, and the Volt had too much EV range, and too little gas range, to give it any meaningfully efficiency increase over an ordinary hybrid.
     
  9. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    FWIW, according to a quickie Google search, the Ioniq 5 appears to have a roof height of ~63” compared to ~68” for the RAV4. IIRC, the RAV4 Prime is about 1.5” taller than the regular RAV4. So yes, certainly more CUV than SUV.
     
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  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Crossover is a vague term dreamed up by marketing because wagon doesn't sell. The car companies define them as a SUV so they can put the CAFE figures in their truck segment to offset the sales of their real trucks.

    The majority buying these crossovers and unibody SUVs are doing so for cargo space and seating position. They like the idea of AWD for bad weather, but likely don't even think of ground clearance.

    The Explorer returned with an unibody because the Freestyle wasn't selling well. The big difference between the two was one looked more car like, and the other truck like.
    I don't think they laughed, but reviewers were sure to point out the Niro was more wagon than SUV when it came out. That car like ground clearance, and lack of AWD, didn't seem to hurt sales that much.

    I'm thinking the C-Max Energi.

    While it didn't reach Prius levels of efficiency, it was still an efficient car. The EV and gas ranges are comparable to the Prius Prime. Ev was 20 miles, but again, lower efficiency and the battery was smaller. The smaller pack isn't enough to explain why Ford was able to lose ony half the cargo space from the hybrid model that the Prime loses from the Prius. Ford did a much better job packaging the battery in what was basically their first PHEV than Toyota did with their second. Ford also kept a full rear seat.

    Keep in mind that the C-Max we got here was a second generation model that was built to be an ICE, not a hybrid, let alone a PHEV. The PP was built of Toyota's brand new TNGA platform.

    Instead of posting photos, Review: 2013 Ford C-MAX Energi Plug-In Hybrid (Video) - The Truth About Cars
     
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  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I will say that the Ioniq5 does look bigger in real life than in the photos.

    RAV4 Prime it is!
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i would venture to guess that toyota did not underestimate rav4 prime demand, but rather that they consider both it and prius prime compliance cars to garner carb credits.

    probably because dealers aren't interested, and margins are thin compared to gassers.
     
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  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It might be the same for the bZ4X and siblings. Lexus has said that model was designed for China; where you need a BEV to sell any car.
     
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  14. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Toyota underestimated the demand? I am sure that their data-science team knows the region-specific demand out there much better than we do.

    It is the supply-chain problems preventing Toyota from building these vehicles. They certainly want to cash in on bZ4X if they can find the parts to build it, which they cannot at the moment.
     
  15. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    A 2020-21 build rate plan was set up, and put out in public, before the pandemic and supply chain disruptions began. 2021 sales actually exceeded that early plan by 38%, so it isn't a case that the supply chain disruptions prevented them from meeting the original build plan.

    So, yes, Toyota underestimated demand. We saw signs of that in spring 2020, before sales units were to begin arriving about July 1 that year.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    or they never wanted to make as many as they thought they could sell...
     
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  17. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    You don't have to give up thinking just because you have a driving assist appliance. Open pilot is great. Added it to our Volt. It adds a measure of safety - similar to autopilot. Would love to have it for our Pacifica plug-in, but like the Prime Rav - that version hasn't yet been created.
    .
     
  18. Downrange

    Downrange Member

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    Wife has an order in for a Rav4 Prime to replace her aging Forester. Dealer said probably "next year." That said, the Mach E has also caught my eye, but similar to the Rav, seems to be "unobtainium."
     
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  19. triggerhappy007

    triggerhappy007 Active Member

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    Is ordering the Mach-E still open for Canada? I know they've stopped ordering in the US.

    I test drove the base RAV4 Prime and didn't like it at all. Go with the Mach-E, better interior, technology, handling, no oil changes, no going to gas stations.
     
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  20. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Ah, interesting; I had not previously heard much said either way about Mach-E availability. Thanks.
     
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