Sign the petition to outlaw OPEC

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(goga12 @ Jul 6 2006, 06:00 AM) [snapback]281891[/snapback]</div>

:blink: :huh: :mellow: :lol:

 

Pardon me, but I think you are looking at this problem the wrong way. Countries with oil can and should be able to charge whatever they want for it. The cheap energy based American way of life is not your right. You are correct that oil is expensive and that some of the money that's spent on oil goes to fund terrorism. That's just the way it is. Your choice is to buy the oil or not to (or to buy less). That is the part of the equation that you have control over.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(goga12 @ Jul 6 2006, 06:00 AM) [snapback]281891[/snapback]</div>

U.S. law has absolutely no authority over OPEC.

 

It would be pretty funny to try to "outlaw" OPEC when the U.S. does not recognize international law or the World Court. U.S. law prohibits price-fixing, but U.S. law applies only in the U.S. Other countries have their own laws.

However, we have the ability to put OPEC out of business: All we have to do is develop our alternative energy resources and help other oil importing nations to do the same.

Easy. But it ain't gonna happen right now, because the people who run our country profit very comfortably from the high price of oil. And because the Saudi princes are great pals of the Bush family. And that's the same reason that any attempt to "outlaw" OPEC will meet with total opposition from our own government. $1/gal gasoline would mean less money in the pockets of GWB's oil cronies.

Along similar lines, Jimmy Carter told us that we waste more energy than we import. The American people kicked him out of office and replaced him with an oil man who supported energy waste because when you have a product to sell you want people to buy a lot of it. We've only ourselves to blame. But we can stop wasting energy and we can stop importing oil any time we decide to. We have the technology. But the American people would rather try to force other countries to sell us their property cheap than to conserve energy and develop wind and solar.

Buy an SUV you have no use for, and then blame OPEC because you can't afford to fill the thing. That's the average American. Then vote for a man who promises to stop same-sex couples from getting married instead of one who promises to address energy crisis by using the energy the sun gives us for free. (Wind and biomass are, of course, forms of solar energy.) That's the way Americans think. Go ahead. Sign a petition against OPEC, if it'll make you feel better. But it won't hurt the Saudi princes any. The only guy on this board who's actually doing something against OPEC (in his own very small way - being just one person) is darelldd, with his solar-powered car. Go Darell!

Well, that was a fun rant. At least for me.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jul 6 2006, 10:51 AM) [snapback]281991[/snapback]</div>

Daniel, while I won't get into the overtly political aspects of your rant, I must take exception to your statement that "only one guy on this board" is actually doing something against OPEC.

I think that every single Prius owner, on this board or not, and all owners of other fuel efficient hybrids (particularly the Insight and Civic) is making their own very significant contribution against OPEC.

What Darell is doing is remarkably exceptional and a true inspiration to all of us. But, what he's doing is also currently quite out of the reach of the vast majority of the population as long as there are no full-featured production battery electric vehicles (or at least PHEV's) available on the market. Solar power is great, but not everyone's property is well suited to its immediate use, including mine.

What's far more important is that Darell is providing a very extensive and educational website about his experience with both solar power and EV's and sharing it all with us. That is what makes Darell's contribution against OPEC exponentially greater than his own personal use of solar on his house or an EV for his own family's transportation.

Thanks to Darell's inspiration, I am changing the plans for a future addition to my house to orient the roof properly due south and at the ideal angle so as to take full advantage of photovoltaic panels. My plans for changing my electric water heater to run on the existing oil furnace have now changed and I will now be persuing a solar option for that and anticipate doing so within the next year. My interest in BEV's and PHEV's has been greatly piqued and I will certainly be in the market for one when they are mass produced (and mass-serviced, I'm not a tinkerer) and they are affordable.

 

While we are at it, let's also sign a petition to outlaw Al Qaeda. Whatever makes you feel better

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jul 6 2006, 09:51 AM) [snapback]281991[/snapback]</div>

Reagan was an oil man? Was the whole acting and govenor of California a smoke screen?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jul 6 2006, 09:51 AM) [snapback]281991[/snapback]</div>

I think this is an unfair statement. Most of the people on here are creating a lot of hot wind. On the down side, it's adding to global warming, but on the upside, this hot air could be harnessed to generate electricity. We are half way there, and I applaud you for your giant contribution and generation of hot air on this forum.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Jul 10 2006, 06:27 AM) [snapback]283769[/snapback]</div>

My mistake. I had the order of presidents mixed up. Of course Bush Sr. came later. Reagan was the brain-dead one.

 

Out of snide curiosity, which politicians really DID make money from oil?

Besides Al Gore's relationship with Occidental Petroleum and George W. Bush with Midland any others?

 

Isn't the price set by the market? Like....the price people will pay? Isn't the reason oil is so high that speculators on the stock market are paying high prices because they think oil will go up even higher?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 10 2006, 05:48 PM) [snapback]284161[/snapback]</div>

Yes, and also the fact that there are emerging markets (China and India) that make all of the Western world's usage pale in comparison..many billlions of Chinese need cars and fuel too B)

 

It is all about markets, politicians of any party won't do jack. Markets for energy are based on the demand. I understand that if each American increases thier MPG by just 8 MPG, then no more need for Middleeast oil or for OPEC.

That is why the Prius is such a milestone in automotive history. It is the first mainstream automobile that has good features, performance, good looks and lowers significantly energy use with a practical alternative to an only gasoline motor.

The Insight failed and so did the GM EV1 because they didn't make sense for the market (customers), too small, too expensive and/or no range. Conversely SUVs made sense if you have to haul a lot of kids to baseball, surfing, soccer, baskeball, etc. three times a week and out of town every weekend and gas is cheap. No more. I can squeeze four + me into the Prius, plus stuff in the back.

By switching from the monster SUV to the Prius we increased our MPG by 35 MPG, which means 1800 less gallons of gas we'll buy a year and at least 2000 lbs. less pollution, take that OPEC !

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Karnac @ Jul 10 2006, 06:32 PM) [snapback]284189[/snapback]</div>

Enlighten me. If I don't get oil from the Middle East or OPEC countries, where do I get the gas for my Prius?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 10 2006, 08:48 PM) [snapback]284161[/snapback]</div>

I think that's a very good speculation. Supply and demand. It's a beautiful thing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wstander @ Jul 10 2006, 08:42 PM) [snapback]284158[/snapback]</div>

Dick Cheney with Halliburton.

I would suspect that Lyndon B. Johnson had deep ties to the Texas petroleum industry.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Karnac @ Jul 10 2006, 09:32 PM) [snapback]284189[/snapback]</div>

Do your calculation again. You're doing way better than that. A gallon of gasoline burned in an internal combustion engine produces 19 pounds of CO2 emmissions.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wstander @ Jul 10 2006, 09:53 PM) [snapback]284194[/snapback]</div>

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington...shington_nation

Imports account for about 60 percent of U.S. oil consumption.

If, by buying a Prius, you have cut your oil usage by at least 60%, you have personally, at least statistically, cut out the OPEC portion of your fuel consumption.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wstander @ Jul 10 2006, 08:53 PM) [snapback]284194[/snapback]</div>

Canada for one
Venezuela for another (even if Bush doesn't like it)

I believe OPEC is only about 11%. So we need to cut our consumption by at least 11%.

I wonder how putting a lot of Solar on roofs would cut the need for generating electricity with oil? How many homes would we need to cover?

And how many cars people would need to move from an SUV to a Prius to cut 11%?

Plenty of people could move to a Prius from whatever they're driving now, especially an SUV. Since when did kids need the space of a minivan or SUV? My brother, sister and I spent many hours in the back seat of a regular car when we were growing up. Advantage to my Mom was we were all within an arm's reach for a quick swat if we acted up. When did a regular car become too small for hauling two or three kids? And the Prius has cargo room in the hatch too!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Jul 10 2006, 07:27 PM) [snapback]284207[/snapback]</div>

But then, won't I have to kill all of the wildlife in Alaska in order to feed my lil' ole gas-devouring Prius? B)

I mean, hey we would not want them thar evil Bushes, Gores, and Cheneys to get any money, do we?

 

Ditching OPEC is the starting topic. Reducing oil consumption enough to do that seems pretty doable near term if everyone gets serious about it, which seems to be happening thanks to the rising fuel prices. Hopefully, once the US gets off "the juice" from the Middle East , the phrase "Save a soldier, Buy a Prius" will be forgotten.

At that point the US will still need to import say 49% of its oil from elsewhere and get oil from Alaska and other bad places like near the coasts. However, big mo' has kicked in, it will be smart and more importantly "very cool" to have a high MPG vehicle so the market (the people/customers), will demand and pay a premium for better and better fuel efficiency in thier cars. After the 2008 Prius comes out with 80 MPG and Toyota is selling 2,000,000 of them a year, other manufaturers copy it, it is then improved on driving average MPGs over 100. The average MPG for the US is then increased from 22 MPG in 2005 to over 90 MPG in 2012. Hydrogen vehicles begin selling in 2010. Soon no need for foriegn or Alaskan oil.

 

You won't see affordable, practical hydrogen vehicles untils at least 2020.

You won't see Anwar oil for 10 years and it will be spit compared to need if we don't muzzle need. Likewise the coast.

Getting OFF oil *is* the answer. Why delay the inevitable AND decimate the environment. The sooner we get a grip on oil useage, the better for everyone (and Global Warming.)

So.....move people to true hybrids. Make better hybrids. And while this is going on.....trust that someone is working on an alternate fuel source. (And whatever that is...it will be running in a hybrid. That includes hydrogen. So improving hybrid technology *is* the direction to go.)

Oh, and add EVs to the mix for those that can use them. Improve them too. Well, that will be an offshoot of those improved hybrids. Add solar on every roof you can. (There will be improvements in that too....cheaper, lighter, more power, etc.) Add Wind as well.

It's a large problem that won't be solved one way but a lot of little ways all working together.

But the time to get off oil is now. Get off oil for things that don't *have* to have oil so what little oil is left for things for which there is no substitution. And work on substitutes for them too.