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Similar Hybrid Battery Packs? GM vs Toyota vs Ford

Discussion in 'GM Hybrids and EVs' started by Richiemoe, Feb 15, 2018.

  1. Richiemoe

    Richiemoe Junior Member

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    I've only searched around a little for this, and this is a pretty broad question....
    But do most battery packs in EV's and Hybrids have similar setups?
    I've replaced bad cells in my wife's 2006 Toyota Prius with more ease, each time i have to do it.

    Is it pretty safe to assume that i'd probably be able to do the same with other vehicles with the same issues?
    If you take the battery pack apart, and it looks like a loaf of bread, just test the bad ones and replace them.
    But i wasn't sure if newer vehicles had different setups attempt to stop people from doing this...

    I'm not going to open up a business but if someone i know has issues with their EV or Hybrid, i'd like to be able to fix it for them for $50 in parts (Prius cells are $39), versus what a dealership charges (we were quoted $3,500).
     
    #1 Richiemoe, Feb 15, 2018
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I have not heard of the manufacturers taking steps to keep non-dealers from servicing the packs in EVs.
    The size of a plug in's pack might prevent a home mechanic from doing the work though; may require access to a car lift.
    Then there is the possible issue of dealing with coolant and plumbing in those models that use liquid cooling for the battery.
     
    #2 Trollbait, Feb 15, 2018
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  3. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Actually, there is much more to repairing a Prius battery back other than replacing a module with a random used one.The replaced module & whole pack need to be properly balanced to get best results.
    You cannot compare repairing a pack with buying a new one. A closer comparison to a new pack is 2K1Toaster's kit of new cells for $1600 and a 2 year warranty.
     
    #3 Prodigyplace, Feb 15, 2018
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  4. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    You also have to look at the battery chemistry in the aforementioned vehicles.

    Different battery chemistries, requires different methodologies.

    For the Prius you worked on, the battery chemistry is a nickel metal hydride, which uses air cooling as its source of cooling the packs. While electric cars that I know of, employ lithium ion batteries that requires complex BMS designs to oversee their functionalities, because of the excess heat they emit. They are water and air cooled.
     
    #4 Dxta, Feb 15, 2018
  5. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Nope. There's this pesky thing called a patent. :whistle:
     
    #5 fotomoto, Feb 15, 2018
  6. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    But there is also tech sharing/leasing/buying/trading. For example if you pull the pack out of a hybrid GMC Yukon, it is a Toyota style pack using PrimeEarth modules...
     
    #6 2k1Toaster, Feb 15, 2018
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  7. Richiemoe

    Richiemoe Junior Member

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    Thank you all for your input!! Good to know about the liquid cooled battery packed. I had assumed that most setups were the same as my wife's 2006 prius. I'm definitely not quitting my job to start a EV/Hybrid repair shop anytime soon... haha

    Buying a new battery pack would be nice, but KBB has the car worth around $3,600-$5,400, with 201k miles. If i was around 100k still, it would make more sense to get a new/refurbished pack. But spending $39 on a used cell, every 6-9 months and the whole process taking 4-6 hours to replace the bad cell, isn't too bad to me.

    Although, i did just read about load testing and balancing... Maybe i'll start doing a load test if i can't easily tell which cell is bad. But i read that the batteries will balance themselves, right? Techstream seems to do a good job of scanning for the issues so far... We'll see though, if repairs become more common... Having no car payments is nice right now...
     
    #7 Richiemoe, Feb 20, 2018
  8. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    The battery pack does not go through a deep enough discharge/recharge cycle to balance well. That is where the Prolong charger & discharger system from Hybrid Automotive do a better balancing job,
     
    #8 Prodigyplace, Feb 20, 2018
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  9. Richiemoe

    Richiemoe Junior Member

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    What exactly happens when the batteries aren't discharged/recharge properly? They just don't last as long as they could/should? Give off wrong readings? All of the above? Sorry, i'm still learning and have a LOT to learn still...
     
    #9 Richiemoe, Feb 20, 2018
  10. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    My understanding is if the modules get far enough out of balance, you get hybrid battery trouble codes. @TMR-JWAP & @2k1Toaster can expand further because they have studied this.
     
    #10 Prodigyplace, Feb 20, 2018
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  11. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    You're where I was a few years ago. Check the link in my signature to see what I did.
     
    #11 fotomoto, Feb 20, 2018
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  12. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    You're correct in your submissions
     
    #12 Dxta, Feb 20, 2018
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  13. Richiemoe

    Richiemoe Junior Member

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    Ah, that makes sense! I clicked on your link for the new batteries, but it is blocked at my work... I'll check it out at home. Thanks!

    wow, very nice threat!! i've bookmarked it for future reads! I like learning this stuff, but i also get nervous of screwing up my wife's car... So i seem to always panic when the dash lights come on... haha I'm restoring my wifes '95 jeep and starting to restore an old '86 chevy pickup. Those are much easier to understand!! A little more rust though.... ha
     
    #13 Richiemoe, Feb 20, 2018
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  14. Richiemoe

    Richiemoe Junior Member

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    The car is a 2006 with 201k miles and i'm putting in batteries from 2013 or newer. Do i really need to worry about an imbalance if i'm continually taking out the bad ones? Or is it possible that some of these "bad cells" are actually bad?
     
    #14 Richiemoe, Feb 20, 2018
  15. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    Aren't those old stuffs part of another greenhouse gas emissions source?
     
    #15 Dxta, Feb 20, 2018
  16. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    I know the experts here say you should not mix different generation modules in the same pack. @2k1Toaster could probably explain best why that is the case. I know Toyota said they use a higher grade of Nickel in the Gen 4 NiMH battery pack.
     
    #16 Prodigyplace, Feb 20, 2018
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  17. Richiemoe

    Richiemoe Junior Member

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    LOL Possibly. But they are also much more fun to drive. I'll swap in a hydrogen engine when they become available. :)
    This is the first foreign vehicle that any in our families have ever owned. So i'm just getting past not feeling like people are judging me for driving a foreign vehicle... It has been a great car so far! But baby steps... lol
     
    #17 Richiemoe, Feb 20, 2018
  18. Ashlem

    Ashlem Senior Member

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    There are some videos I saw on youtube where a professor takes apart a Chevy Volt and Bolt battery. He does a pretty thorough job of dismantling it and showing off as many of the individual pieces as possible.

    Of course, he was also using some hefty lifting equipment, and was in a big room which most DIYers probably won't have access to.

    There are also some folks who are buying those battery packs from crashed EV's, and using the batteries for backup power for their house. While it's risky because you may not know what kind of damage said packs sustained during that crash, they can still be useful as backup power for a house, since they're no longer needed to provide a ton of power at once to move a car around even after they've suffered some degradation and capacity loss.
     
    #18 Ashlem, Mar 2, 2018
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