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Skipped Timing started Ticking... Tore down replaced Timing Chain ... Still Ticking ...Now What?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by prius2serve, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. prius2serve

    prius2serve New Member

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    IMG_20171022_140743.jpg

    Last month driving into the sierra's I got an error code p0016. the car started ticking and the engine lost 70% of it's horsepower. I pulled over had it towed and began researching potential causes.

    Possible Problems:
    Dirty oil?
    Bad VVTI Solenoid?
    Skipped timing (the chain literally moved a tooth on the timing gear)?
    Bad Intake cam shaft VVT Sproket?​

    I got the courage up and pulled the valve cover off, the chain looked warn and it sure looked like the timing was off a sprocket or two.

    I decided to replace the timing chain. Bought a kit off eBay and replaced the timing chain. I found the full repair manual online somewhere and it was a life saver. I'll upload the manual or a link to it. It is a process that is easier in theory than actual practice. It was an amazing experience to get into the engine.

    Basically removed the everything off the top to get to the valve cover then removing the motor mount, then removed everything on the left side of the engine to get to the timing cover, water pump, pulleys, headlight and other things.

    I finished the repair completed and put everything back together.

    The problem is that the car continues to make a ticking noise after the repair.

    I tore it down again and checked my work ... it looked right. I noticed the intake cam sprocket, the one that adjusts the timing (VVT), was moving back and forth 40-50 degrees? I looked at it and saw that it has oil bays that fill up with oil and adjust the timing based on oil pressure. The amount of oil is controlled by the Solenoid on the front of the motor near the timing cover and valve cover on the left side. I thought it would move until there was enough oil pressure to lock it into place.

    To be safe I bench tested the VVTI solenoid. it opened and closed freely. (youtube video on how to test)
    s-l1600.png


    I called a Mechanic and he said those things (Intake camshaft sprocket VVT) are not supposed to move.
    I bought another one off a used motor and installed it.

    Put it back together... started it up and ticking still!!!

    I have tried a few things and am looking for assistance from the community to diagnose this problem to get my beloved Prius back on the road! I do 500 miles a week and have a refreshed appreciation for the amazing milage of the Prius.

    Any Ideas?

    does the VVT intake cam shaft sprocket move when there is no oil pressure? Am I missing something with the timing chain repair instructions?
    I there another problem with the valves that require me to take the head off and inspect? I'm looking for good assistance here!


    Attached Timing Chain Repair Shop Manual for the 1NZE-FXE Prius Gen 2 motor.

    (uploaded 1NZ-FXE- Mechanical and the forum said the file was too large. It's a PDF 18mb
    I extracted the timing chain portion of the manual out and attached it as "Untitled Extracted Pages.pdf".

    I will try and find the link to download all the manauls. It's a huge file ...everything!

     

    Attached Files:

    #1 prius2serve, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
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  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    If the ticking you're describing sounds like a sewing machine....it's probably best to get another engine than to fiddle with it.

    Has the car ever been low on oil?
     
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  3. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    I have overhauled a 1NZ engine for a Prius 2008.

    I'd advice you do the following:

    Did you check all the items you've listed above, before finally going for the camshaft replacement?

    The camshaft, isn't supposed to turn freely like that, except while you bench test it, using pressurised air through the camshaft rod.

    When its working in the car, that sprocket rotates and adjust the engine timing accordingly.

    Replace the camshaft, if it does turn while if you rotate it by hand.

    Have you checked the camshaft cone bearings? Those stuff that sits on the valve springs? If they aren't being lubricated by oil coming from the oil sump, via the valve train galleries, there'd be problems.

    Inspect also the caps that has the 10mm bolts holding the camshaft down on the cylinder head. If this checks OK, replace those those caps to see if it works.

    That code also suggests something about wiring. Have the VVTi connections and harnesses checked out for proper connections.

    PS: Possible you make a few minutes video of the noise?
    Remember, we have different type of noises.


    Dxta
     
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  4. prius2serve

    prius2serve New Member

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    It was low on oil. It was burning a quart a week.
     
  5. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Maybe you should've just replaced the engine? The timing chain isn't the cause of the oil burning, that's a completely different and hairy issue.
     
  6. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    If it was burning oil, you're in the same category with what happened to the engine I overhauled.

    You've got to tear that engine down, and completely overhaul it, if you've got the time, or take it to a dealer. Another option would be to replaced the engiwith a low mileages used one.

    In my case, I had to replace the compression rings 1 and 2; and the oil rings. They were severely worn.

    Getting those parts won't be hard. You could order the online, or something like that.
     
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  7. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    The vvti is supposed to move some inch, when you bench test it with a 12volt battery. If it doesn't move, it isn't working.

    But the code you posted here, seems to be related more to an electrical circuitry problem on the vvti or so area
     
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  8. prius2serve

    prius2serve New Member

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    Thank you DXTA, I added a youtube link to the posting to show the sound. there is a cyclical repetition to it.



    Sound
     
  9. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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  10. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    How long has it been burning 1qt/week?

    This engine would be a candidate for oil filter changes ONLY?

    If the Catalytic converter hasn't been changed already, the oil burn rate will make it happen soon enough.
     
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  11. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Sounds to me like the VVT solenoid is constantly being actuated which I don’t think should happen at idle.
    Intake timing advance is trying to happen at idle.
    You have something seriously amiss. First thought was timing chain jumped a few teeth and engine is confused but that would throw a slew of cam shaft/crank timing errors.

    I suspect your obd code reader is not revealing all the error codes the car is throwing.
    You have something really wrong with intake camshaft positioning or the VVT oil vane assy is faulty.
    If you need to save motor I would replace the vane assy and check TDC alignment and camshaft timing.

    But given how much oil it’s using it’s way past end of life anyway. You have so much labor invested.
    G2 motors are not expensive. Lots of them in bone yards.
     
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  12. prius2serve

    prius2serve New Member

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    Thank you for the insight. I'm amazed with all of the input and help. thank you.

    based on your advise:
    I'm trying to understand the condition of the intake camshaft sprocket/phaser to give an accurate answer:
    the camshaft will not turn.
    the intake camshaft sprocket/phaser turns 40-60 degrees in either direction by hand. ( It moves without compressed air. I'm moving it while it is mounted to the cam)
    should I replace the camshaft since it (the sprocket/phaser) turns by hand while installed?

    I will check those. thank you. I did not know about them until you said. I had to google it.

    Here's link I found about the cone bearings for other users:
    https://www.autozone.com/repairguides/Toyota-Prius-2002-06/Engine-Mechanical-Components/Camshaft-Bearings-Lifters/_/P-0996b43f80379c4d

    Thank's again for the assistance Dxta
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    How many miles are you putting on weekly?
     
  14. prius2serve

    prius2serve New Member

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    I pickup an engine that a recycler I know. He said was overheating and sold it to me for $50. (I bought it to have as an instructional device). I pulled the plugs from the engine and it was the NKG iridium with the weird 3 prong tips. I don't know if I can use any of it to fix my engine.

    I pulled the sprocket/phaser off of it and it moved too.
     
  15. prius2serve

    prius2serve New Member

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    I checked the oil control valve by pulling it out and putting 12v from a battery charger on it.
    the valve opened and closed fast and smoothly every time power hit it.


    I do not know how to check the oil filter on it. I have not seen it.
    any advice on how to check the oil control valve's oil filter?
     
  16. prius2serve

    prius2serve New Member

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    Thanks for the advice edthefox5. really appreciate. ultimately the engine is worn. it put in 277k and was a good engine.
    I am really concerned with figuring this out.
    is the filter inside VVT oil Vane Assembly? Advice above said the filter could be clogged... is the filter inside of it?
    I can buy a new one and throw it in...

    Also, I could have fried the solenoid when I applied 12v/2amp direct from the battery charger to test it... I don't know.

    TRUE!
    How much harder is it to just swap the engine?
    I have that other engine from the recycler that was overheating. can I take the low-end from it? Should I just buy a running one for $300-$500?
    Should I rebuild mine?
    I have the car int eh garage and the operating room setup all around it now.

    I am ready to dive in because I have to get this Prius back on the road. Ive spent so much time I could not bare to sell it as a mechanic's special on cl. I really want to get it driving again.

    Never rebuilt or swapped and engine but I am up for it.

    Is there an advantage over either option? which is most pragmatic given the fact that I would like to keep the car.
     
  17. prius2serve

    prius2serve New Member

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    I saw this interesting video on how to replace a Variable valve timing oil filter


    that filter seems to be below/before the solenoid. it could be that there is no oil getting to the solenoid.?
     
  18. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    This doesn't sound like a timing issue.

    Can you rescan the car again? Seems to be
    If that camshaft sprocket (VVTi) turns by hand without air pressure while bench testing it, you got to replace that.

    Ensure the engine is properly timed; chain guides are OK, and finally, the camshafts bearing caps are within spec
     
  19. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    If oli isn't getting to it, there must be problem with the oil supply line(galleries).

    Remove the oil filter and check for any sludge buildup.

    Have you checked if the valve train gets oil supplied to it via the oil pump?

    The picture I just posted was for a rav4 I recently replaced the valve cover gasket.

    Take notice of how the valve train(camshafts, etc) are fresh. That's to tell you, there's a steady supply of oil from the sump, via the oli pump.

    The above shows you one way to know if there was oil being supplied by the pump.

    You could remove one of the camshaft bearing caps to assess its integrity.
     

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  20. prius2serve

    prius2serve New Member

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    I pulled the oil filter and it was clean but there was a clump of sludge that came out near it. The oil cover gasket is nice and soft. and the camshaft bearing caps came off but I don't know how to tell. they stunk with a weird oil smell.