So are we winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqis yet?

I guess we needed something to make the Iraqis forget about Saddam Hussein . OOPS, they already have. Job well done US soldiers . . . carry on.

 

Because of weapons of mass destruction our troops are fighting a much needed war!

I wonder who in Congress helped make the decision to support the Ba'ath Iraqi political party.

(waiting for the antipatriot accusation... response ready)

 

War is a pretty horrible thing, and there are always atrocities and claims of atocities. If these pan out and atrocities were committed, there is at least some consolation that any person found guilty of a crime will be punished in accordance with the law. That doesn't happen with all armies; only Western ones. For that, at least, we can be thankful.

 

Honestly...who knows?

As you all know, I'm not a fan of the Bush Administration, but the reporting out of Iraq is sketchy at best. Two CBS employees where killed today (yesterday). I saw on MSNBC that one major media organization can't get anyone to volunteer to go.

Does anyone have a blog source for this? Do most Iraqis still want the US to leave? Any credible sources out there?

One of my friends from my Air Force clinic just got back from Iraq and said we are doing good work over there....but he never left the base!! So how does he know? We are treating many Iraqi wounded so maybe that's the good work he is talking about.

How do you measure winning the hearts and minds? A consistent power grid? Potable water? No violence? People going back to work?

Good question...anybody with answers or sources????

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 29 2006, 07:22 PM) [snapback]262570[/snapback]</div>

The poll results I've heard reported do say that the Iraqi's want us to leave, because they want their country back. That's completely understandable. But they don't want us to abandon them either. If I remember the stat correctly, 60+% feel good about the future. The new government has asked us to stay until things are stabilized.

The key in these things is to not let your partisanship blind you into thinking things are either all good or all bad. I thought going in it would take us 10 years to stablize the country, and I still think that's about what its going to take. I don't see any evidence that it will be a quick fix, and to be fair, the government hasn't said it would be quick. True, the mission of taking Bahgdad was accomplished, and in record time with much fewer casualties than expected (we still haven't reached the number of US dead that was predicted for the months of combat planned to take Baghdad). But the rebuilding of a country takes far too long for us to commit to; we are seen as fat and lazy, and our reputation is that there is always a danger of deserting our friends as soon as an election cycle comes along.

 

"the Iraqi's want us to leave, because they want their country back"

So they want Bush to leave and to have their country back. A lot of Americans are saying the same thing about this country.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 29 2006, 10:22 PM) [snapback]262570[/snapback]</div>

I'm sure your Air Force friend spent a whole three months there in a nice, air-conditioned trailer at Camp Victory (near the airport), as well. Too bad he wasn't stationed up at Balad where, at one point, there were weekly mortar attacks. One of them hit the main PX and killed a couple of guys waiting to get in.

That's usually the case with military personnel who think 'we're doing good work there'. Invariably, they're officers or Navy or Air Force guys with little or no time in a hostile fire area. A lot of them spent their 'Iraq duty' sitting in Kuwait.

I was stationed at Camp Cropper which was at BIAP (Baghdad International Aiport, right next to the runways), but for eleven months, having been sent to Iraq after my Army reserve contract expired four months prior. Cropper is an HVD (High Value Detention) facility where they held Saddam after he was captured. Lots of OGA (Other Government Agencies, i.e., CIA) running around there, too.

Half of my unit were interrogators and analysts at Abu Ghraib. Two of the analysts are in the abuse photos. I knew one analyst who was killed by a mortar attack on the prison. Another guy from the battalion I didn't know had been killed by an IED a month earlier.

So, my perspective is a bit different from your Air Force friend. I don't think we're 'doing good work there' and thought the whole Iraqi 'adventure' was a colossal mistake from the beginning. I had to go off post a few times for such important missions like delivering mail and picking up/dropping off guys for R&R. Fortunately, those types of missions didn't require but three or so HMMWVs, so we could drive like hell. My experience of being an aggressive driver in the US helped in that respect. The guys who get killed by IEDs are almost always in slow moving convoys.

 

Have we all forgotton OSAMA? Sheeple are following the press and not asking the important questions. Why did we leave our cozy bases anyway? Oh yea! Because of 9/11 caused by OSAMA, not the Iraqi people. Iraq is nothing but a diversion to keep our minds off of OSAMA and the unsuccessful attempts at finding him. The Iraqi people did nothing to us it was OSAMA. Bombing Iraq was a diversion technique to get our minds off of a stolen election. GET IT RIGHT.

 

Won the hearts and minds of the Iraqis yet? Gosh, no, they'd have to be as gullible as Americans who actually voted for Bush in 2004. It's difficult to imagine people dumber than that. :lol:

 

spun leftist propaganda....

...par for course.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rudiger @ May 30 2006, 10:37 AM) [snapback]262728[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for your perspective. I'm active duty Air Force and my friend was at Balad for four months. He and others from my unit described to me the mortar attacks on a daily basis. He described all the war injuries and deaths he saw on a daily basis. War IS hell.

I'm with you on your feelings about this war. I would love to hear from more active duty members like yourself. It's no wonder that a majority of the Veterans running for office this fall want us out of the war. They've seen it first hand. Now the right is going to say "We must prevail. We cannot cut and run. Democracy will reign in Iraq. Stable Middle East, etc..."

After graduating from Air Command and Staff College, I can tell you that it's American doctrine to never go into a war without an exit strategy. Well, it's clear now we don't have one and that is a big mistake. This war will go on and on.

 

Well since Jack Murtha tried and convicted the Marines on TV they must be guilty - If I was Peter Pace I'd drop all charges just for that reason.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 30 2006, 11:58 PM) [snapback]263223[/snapback]</div>

I think you're exagerating (sp?) quite a bit here. I have only met a few Iraqi vets that didn't think it was worth it, and I have met hundreds of vets. Also I think our exit strategy is quite clear, and not to be trite but, if I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand. It seems you are taking a very defeatist view, and of course nothing can be won or accomplished with this attitude. I wish you good luck in all your endeavors however.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(imntacrook @ May 31 2006, 04:21 AM) [snapback]263279[/snapback]</div>

Funny how the leftists here mention Abu Graib and are the first to condem US Marines for ALLEGED war crimes before their right to trial - but in the same breath...

1. want to grant constitutional rights to terrorists held in Gitmo, not to mention Mousoui - they favor holding his trial in a civilian court knowing it would hinder his prosecution.
2. never said a syllable when Saddams torture prisons were slicing and dicing 100's of Iraqi's a day - or never mention the 100's of thousands of Iraqi's we have dug up in mass graves.
3. never mention his gassing of the Kurds.
4. never mention the good we have done including establishing a free press with dozens of newspapers, radio stations and television stations now operating when before there were none; having nearly half a million Iraqi's on the internet; an economy that is growing at nearly 30% year to year; women now being able to drive, attend school, participate in the government.

I could go on except it would be worthless here - the natural bend here is Anti-America, we are a force for evil, etc, etc. Fine.

Maybe next time you will have the same emotional response when an American gets beheaded or an American soldier is captured and shot in cold blood - oops, you guys probably like that stuff, my bad.

The initial post here makes me feel like vomiting - like Jihad Jack Murtha who convicted and sentenced his "fellow" marines before they were even given their due process --- he makes me sicker than this post; may be he is using a pen name. Most American veterans AND citizens hold judgement until due process is done knowing that our system punishes those that do wrong -- I would posit that most veterans and Americans would give a little understanding to the situation that they must of been put in - - again we will see when the investigation is done --- but you guys have already made up your minds.. i find that very interesting and revealing

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(imntacrook @ May 31 2006, 03:21 AM) [snapback]263279[/snapback]</div>

First off, it's 'exagerating' with two g's. Exaggerating. And in my post, I'm not. More Vets are running as Democrats and anti-war.

My views are not defeatist. My views are formulated from looking at the facts and coming to a conclusion. They are not anti-American, as dbermanmd keeps on insisting.

You are being trite. If you read my post, I graduated from Air Command and Staff College. A one year program that trains Air Force officers to be commanders. It's the mid level professional military education school. Below that is Squadron Officers School and above it, Air War College. I have a bachelors degree and a doctorate degree. So don't question my professional military knowledge. I will understand it. Please give me your point of view and tell me America's clear cut exit strategy in Iraq.

I too wish you all the best!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 31 2006, 04:47 AM) [snapback]263326[/snapback]</div>

EYEGUY13 for Presdient...we need more guys like you speaking out ...RLTW

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 31 2006, 08:47 AM) [snapback]263326[/snapback]</div>

I think that "running as a Democrat and anti-war" is an oxymoronic statement since all Democrats that are allowed to run for office (that are not already elected and running for re-election -- i.e., Lieberman who the Democrats want defeated for his pro-war stance) are Anti-War.

And I do think you views are defeatist - what would have been your position on Dec 8, 1941, or after the Battle of the Buldge, or after Iwo Gima, or after Gettysburg??? And you view Iraq as a single unit overlooking tribal entities that in effect divide the land into at least three sections - the majority of which are peaceful and operating in total freedom. And with due respect to your formal education, it does not make you error proof, if anything it should make you more hesitant to draw conclusions that encompass such a huge topic knowing that you are unaware of all the information you would need to make an unbiased decision - why isn't every Ph.D in economics a millionaire?? You base your "conclusions" on "facts" - what facts, and are you sure they are "facts" or selective facts; are you privy to all the facts so you might make a more informed conclusion.

The exit strategy involves establishing a government - something they did in 1/3 the time we did, building an economic foundation to support their continued economic expansion that has taken off since Saddams capture, establishment of security forces that will operate independantly with American oversight and airpower - as a starting point.

It continues with the education of women, continued democratic practices including elections and referrendums, establishment of an independant judiciary, spread of sources designed to disseminate information that is not "cleared" by a central government, spread of the powers and delights of individual rights and freedoms previously not enjoyed (and usually worth defending), a growing economy that employs people, incorporation of "new" technologies like cell phones and internet access that further empowers the individual.

It is witnessing foreign armies willing to sacrifice their young to establish rights and freedoms they enjoy for others - to do so without the intent of occupying their country. The exit strategy requires the support of the men and the mission above all - I would think as a veteran you would appreciate this more than others - you may not agree with the war but if you do not support the men AND THE mission you make exiting that much more difficult.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 31 2006, 08:58 AM) [snapback]263353[/snapback]</div>

You make valid exit strategy comments. These are all goals of democracy and a free society. But what is the exit strategy for the US Government to remove troops from Iraq? Don't go off track from my original comment. I simply stated that the exit strategy for the US Government in Iraq is unclear.

The exit strategy in the Balkans during the Clinton Administration was unclear and we are still in Bosnia.

The exit strategy during the first Gulf War WAS clear and the majority of our forces pulled out within a few months after the end of hostilities.

The exit strategy was clear in Panama, even the air war in Kosovo.

If the exit strategy is unclear, the war will go on. The Iraqi security forces have stood up, yet there is no reduction in US forces. The Iraqi people have a government and a Prime Minister, yet none of our troops are coming home.

The US Government policy is to use US forces when it is in the best interest of national security and there is a clear exit strategy. Simple as that. I support the troops. Hell, I am one of the troops. But I don't want to see any more die if the policy and exit strategy is flawed. Let's get the job done and bring our troops home.

From all reports, the bases we are building in Iraq are big and vast. We WILL be there a long time. (like Korea and Bosnia)