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So there's this guy...

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by daniel, Feb 14, 2009.

  1. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    So there's this guy here who "informed" us at supper the other night that there's a company that, for $30,000, will convert a Prius into a pure EV that will go a thousand miles on a single charge. I told him this is not the case. The batteries alone for a thousand-mile EV would cost close to three hundred thousand dollars, and would probably be too heavy and too bulky to fit into a Prius even if you used the entire cargo space. He said he had read about it in a "reliable" magazine (but he could not remember which one!!!) so it was true.

    I'd have said more but he was getting this "won't this jerk shut up" look and starting to talk about something else to the person next to him.

    I mention this to draw attention to the truly phenominal level of ignorance of the general public as regards transportation options. Someone else asked, wasn't there a car that runs on oxygen?

    Where to begin with a question like that? Explain that all fuels need oxygen to burn, so oxygen is a part of the equation in any fuel-burning car, but the atmosphere is 21% oxygen, so it's not an issue? Or just hang your head in despair that there are people who don't even understand the basic chemistry of fire? With people like this, no wonder the public thinks that hydrogen fuel cells are a practical possibility, or that water-for-gas schemes are real.

    The world is populated by idiots.

    Time for lunch... The food here is fabulous!
     
    #1 daniel, Feb 14, 2009
  2. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    You have realized something sad but true. I am guessing that this is not the first time you have realized this, and I know it won't be the last.

    Tom
     
    #2 qbee42, Feb 14, 2009
  3. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    People are thick everywhere. It's always been that way and always will be that way. Sure, the "thickness threshold" will change over time, but the amount of thickness in the universe is a constant. It's a lot like energy in that respect. ;) There's probably a second law of dumb arse dynamics somewhere that proves this to be true.
     
    #3 tripp, Feb 14, 2009
  4. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    Did you know that you can convert a car to get 100 mpg by using battery power to make HHO? Its free energy! I read about it on the internet, so it must be true. All you need is Stainless Steel and a mason jar. :madgrin:










    Ignorance + Poor Reasoning Skill = Gullibility
     
    #4 dogfriend, Feb 14, 2009
  5. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    I have a good friend who instantly recognizes opportunities like this as a way of keeping his fridge stocked with beer. Rather than directly oppose a goofy statement, he starts working the conversation to where the uneducated* makes a claim that can be subject to a beer bet.

    *Since I contributed to the beer fund a long time ago, I have to refrain from calling myself names.

    Daniel - Giving up a beer seem to educate 1000 times faster than any other method I have seen.
     
    #5 FL_Prius_Driver, Feb 14, 2009
  6. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    What you describe sounds something like my "Fees Based Education System".
    Part of my job is educating people about road laws (kind of like laws of physics) and to do this I may warn a person that they are doing the wrong thing according to the laws made by our democratically ellected parliament for the common good of all. Often I'll come across this same person breaking the same law within a few weeks. This is when fees based education comes into play. When you tell a person what the law is and hand them a bill for several hundred dollars it seems they listen much more intently, because it is much rarer to have to tell them again for a very long time.

    Daniel and all, it is posible to run an engine on water, I have done it.
    http://priuschat.com/forums/freds-house-pancakes/55778-prius-engine-runs-water.html
     
    #6 patsparks, Feb 14, 2009
  7. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    While I cannot absolutely prove this, I suspect that, just as the universe seems to be expanding at an accelerating rate due to "dark energy," so too the amount of stupidity in the world is also expanding at an accelerating rate. Of course, it's also possible that stupidity, like meteorites, is attracted to the Earth and merely collecting here.

    My Xebra runs on water. In a manner of speaking. Water falls out of the sky, runs downhill, turns the generators at the Bonneville dam to make electricity, which they deliver to my home in wires. I connect my Xebra to those wires and each time I do, it's good for another 40 miles. Less if I run the heater, but not an awful lot less.

    My three-legged clown car really is powered by water.
     
    #7 daniel, Feb 14, 2009
  8. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    So I've got this car - A Prius!, that's the ticket - and I've had it converted - runs entirely on batteries! - and it'll go really far on a single charge - a thousand miles! I was driving in my car with my wife - Morgan Fairchild! - when an animal ran in front of me. A unicorn, that's the ticket!
     
    #8 TonyPSchaefer, Feb 14, 2009
  9. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    Fixed it for ya.
     
    #9 dogfriend, Feb 14, 2009
  10. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    I run into this problem occasionally when I tell one medical doctor about what another medical doctor told me. Each of them tells me that the other one is sadly mistaken, and that research proves their case. One particular case of parallel realities is between oncologists and immunologists. They both seem to regard the other as dangerous quacks. It's not easy to chose who is more correct, and who is just selling their product. Or if they're both off the mark. I try to probe the depth of their knowledge - is it direct or just reiteration of standard talking points.

    I do remember stories about special carburetors that could deliver 25 mpg on cars that were currently delivering 15 mpg. The idea of a 50 mpg car was truly ridiculous. I have it on good authority that the 2010 Prius is impossible.
     
    #10 RobH, Feb 15, 2009
  11. Mike Dimmick

    Mike Dimmick Active Member

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    Perfectly possible. They lean off the fuel mixture so the car produces huge amounts of NOx. Also, the engine temperature gets really hot, causing damage to the valves and valve seats.

    FuelSaving.info - Air Bleed Devices.

    (Actually you didn't need a new carburetor - adjusting the mixture on your current one was probably enough.)

    The car produces minimum emissions when the air/fuel ratio is around 14.7:1, though the exact correct proportion depends on the actual make-up of the fuel and density of air, so the car has a negative-feedback control system to measure the oxygen content of the output exhaust and adjust the amount of fuel injected accordingly.
     
    #11 Mike Dimmick, Feb 15, 2009
  12. EZW1

    EZW1 Active Member

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    Like the guy back in the '70s who made a device that contained a magnet that you put in you fuel line and it will increase your mileage by 15mpg! These guys are all over the place!
     
    #12 EZW1, Feb 15, 2009
  13. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    A 50-mpg car of the weight and power of a Prius would have been impossible with the technology of the 1960's. The Prius relies on computational power to integrate a low-torque high-efficiency engine with a high-torque electric motor. Even the controller for the electric motor requires semiconductor technology that did not exist then.

    A thousand-mile EV of the weight and performance of a Prius is impossible with today's batteries. That does not mean it won't exist at some time in the future when batteries or other electric storage devices are developed with the requisite capacity.

    The idiot I met at supper that day had probably read about the HyMotion conversion that costs around (???) $12,000 or $15,000 and gives a Prius 100 mpg under ideal conditions for the first (???) 60 miles, while the grid charge lasts. The idiot probably forgot the price, and so invented one, and then mis-remembered "hybrid 100 mpg" as "EV 1,000 mile range." Or possibly he simply didn't understand what he was reading. Very possibly he does not know the difference between a gas-electric hybrid and an EV, and could not comprehend what a PHEV is if you took an hour explaining it to him with diagrams.

    This sort of thing happens all the time. People read very casually, and then distort in their memory what they had read, but they are certain they read it in a "reliable" place, and then they repeat the bogus information to friends, who may repeat it further, if they don't forget they ever met the idiot.

    It is a culture of ignorance which allows us to be manipulated by demagogues who exploit the public's inability to think. This is why politicians don't want to spend money on schools. If people learned how to think, they'd vote the crooks out of office. Politicians love religion, however, because it tells children that if they question nonsensical assertions they'll go to hell. It instills in them the habit of not thinking.
     
    #13 daniel, Feb 15, 2009
  14. lys

    lys AerodynamicMac

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    Good & accurate point, Daniel.

    And we cannot forget TV... our times religion, with all the misinformation and manipulation of middle-ages Inquisition, without burning unfortunates (almost).
     
    #14 lys, Feb 16, 2009
  15. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!"

    Tom
     
    #15 qbee42, Feb 16, 2009
  16. lys

    lys AerodynamicMac

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    :rolleyes:

    I'm afraid we're sliding a bit off-topic.

    But it seems people who go for new ways to look at things (EV things?), become at some point philosophical.

    Enjoy holidays, Daniel, the only important matter.
     
    #16 lys, Feb 16, 2009
  17. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    No, I think we will soon return to Inquisition-style events. Not only do they serve to keep the "trouble makers" in line, the events also serve as good Bread and Circus entertainment for the masses

    Nothing like watching The Rack pull apart an unfortunate individual, who will be most likely screaming in pain and terror, with the crowds cheering

    As far as this nut who claims a 1,000 mile range, perhaps he will try to sucker a few simpletons to invest in his idea. Hell, consider all the folks who buy lottery tickets!
     
    #17 jayman, Feb 16, 2009
  18. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Yep, one could even buy a "lean burn" car that got really good fuel economy. An uncle of mine had a late 1960's Chrysler of some sort, small V8, that got 20 city and 28 highway. No emissions control whatsoever

    That one version of the Honda Insight was also "lean burn" with pretty high emissions
     
    #18 jayman, Feb 16, 2009
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