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Solar in Portugal...

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by burritos, Mar 31, 2007.

  1. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    #1 burritos, Mar 31, 2007
  2. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    A total waste of PV if you ask me (which you didn't, but there it is). Why the hell aren't they using CSP over there? I'm all for more solar but these massive PV parks don't seem to make much sense to me, esp in a place like Spain or Portugal. CSP is cheaper than PV, more efficient, has the realistic potential for baseload capability and doesn't drive the cost of PV up! Uses less land too (for similarly sized installations).
     
    #2 tripp, Mar 31, 2007
  3. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Mar 31 2007, 04:11 PM) [snapback]415617[/snapback]</div>
    Yeah, you're probably right, but better than fossil fuels and nuclear. I don't think you're going to get big enough orders of PV to justify bigger PV production facilities through rooftop PV installation only. I don't know the details of the manufacturing scaling increases that were necessary to make this PV farm, but I'll hazzard to guess that someone made bigger PV production factories when this order came it. So now we have bigger PV producing factories, hopefully it'll become cheaper and more affordable which is the goal of scaling. Wash rinse and repeat.
     
    #3 burritos, Mar 31, 2007
  4. Mirza

    Mirza New Member

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    What is csp?
     
    #4 Mirza, Mar 31, 2007
  5. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Mar 31 2007, 10:00 PM) [snapback]415785[/snapback]</div>
    Sorry, Miz. CSP stands for Concentrated Solar Power.

    Here's a little background info.
     
    #5 tripp, Mar 31, 2007
  6. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Mar 31 2007, 05:31 PM) [snapback]415678[/snapback]</div>
    Probably none. Would you rather sell 52,000 modules to one customer or worry about selling them off to many? Everyone else has to wait for the backlog to be eased. Don't get me wrong, PV is an excellent technology with many uses. Massive, utility scale deployments just don't seem to be one of them. Just look at the size of the CSP (and Stearling Engine) projects being contracted by So Cal Edison. Those two new projects alone dwarf all of the European utility scale PV projects combined. Each of those projects is hundreds of MW with extensions what would push them to well over 1GW (combined).
     
    #6 tripp, Apr 1, 2007
  7. Mirza

    Mirza New Member

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    Ah... thanks for the info!
     
    #7 Mirza, Apr 1, 2007
  8. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Apr 1 2007, 12:17 AM) [snapback]415825[/snapback]</div>
    1. If I were a PV producer I'd rather have an order of 52,000 FIRST then worry about the roof installation buyers second.

    2. If I were the energy company, I'd build CSP, cause it's more cost efficient.

    3. If I were a nation wanting to get off of fossil fuel, I'd invest in both, but I'd encourage the scaling of PV cause that will eventually trickle down to small scale use such as roof installation.

    4. If I were a solar lobbyist, I'd pay the politicians to preach reason #3 to the public to get the PV industry rolling with taxpayer subsidies(but it's not really pork, cause everyone will benefit with a grid less dependent on fossil fuels).

    5. If I were a CSP lobbyist, I'd know I was screwed cause no one is going to install my product on their roof.

    Joking aside, I know that ESLR in conjuction with Q-cells is building with q-cells a brand new 50MW fab unit in germany. Solarworld is also bringing a 500MW unit into oregon. I'm sure there are more examples. Production is being ramped up because of increasing demand for PV. I'm sure these bulk purchases make a difference. It's the chicken and the egg dilemma. What comes first, demand or product?

    Like the prius, probably they wait for demand to build(hence the backlog), then you ramp up production to feed the demand.

    Prius is sort of like the PV in this example. Sure it'd be better and cheaper and cleaner if everyone used the bus(the CSP in this case), but buses just aren't sexy.
     
    #8 burritos, Apr 1, 2007
  9. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    Yeah, the silicon problem is being attacked from many angles. In the next couple of years, hopefully, the price of panels will drop. If we could just cut the cost in half it would be huge at this point.

    CSP is definitely a utility scale thing. No doubt. It aspect that's good though it the ability to provide baseload. It's much cheaper to store heat than electricity. By storing the heat, a CSP plant (which is really just a NG plant with solar collectors attached) can provide electricity when the sun isn't shining.
     
    #9 tripp, Apr 1, 2007
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