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solar tarrifs

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by austingreen, May 16, 2012.

  1. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Its an opinon piece, but what do you think is more important, more solar energy, or US made solar panels?
    Obama

     
  2. mmcdonal

    mmcdonal Active Member

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    Tariffs and countervailing duties have long been used to balance trade. If China is taking all our stuff because they subsidize their domestic manufacturers, then we need to apply tariffs and duties to prevent them from driving our domestic producers out of business. The fact that Obama is doing this, or that it is being applied to solar panels is not pertinent. There are laws and procedures that have been in place for quite a long time that allow domestic manufacturers to get relief from unfair foreign trade practices, like most of China's trade practices. China is not likely to follow suit, any more than they have in the past. We are inextricably entwined with China, but they want our domestic economy to be healthy for now, so they can keep shipping our economy over there. Buy American - or at least Boycott China.

    As a case in point, they undercut our rare earth production so much, that domestic mines went out of business. Now that we are dependent on Chinese rare earth, they are reducing exports to all markets until we cough up concessions. How is that right? The same may happen with this market as well.
     
  3. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    My personal priority would be to get the cheaper solar to get more installed.
    Congress is always looking to boost US jobs. They put all kinds of boundaries in the laws that basically keep big companies and foreign countries out of the game, to favor new US businesses.
     
  4. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    There is one aspect of this totally overlooked. That is the solar imbalance is equalized when all the solar cell foundry equipment and Silicon bought by China from US manufacturers is included. That was about 1.7 billion $ in 2010 according to the SEIA.

    So tariff warfare would make solar panel maker happy but would face opposition from solar wafer processing equipment and material companies. It's not clear that the US would be better off.

    My approach to this issue is not using tariffs to balance the equation, but require ALL manufacturer of solar panels to meet ALL environmental, safety and waste disposal regulations. No exceptions. Basically, a company, (Chinese, US, German, Canadian, etc.) cannot sell until they have provided proof, every year, that all regulations have been met. That would go a long way to solving so many problems on both side of the pond, yet maintain a free, fairer, and competitive marketplace. Not perfect, but better than tariff warfare.
     
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  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    +1
    It would likely mean fewer solar jobs and in silicon and semiconductor equipment, but maybe it would keep more jobs in coal:eek:
    U.S. tariffs on Chinese solar cells fuel debate about green jobs - Los Angeles Times
    Would you do this to Chinese solar chips which are much cleaner than say west Virginia coal mining or fracking in Pennsylvania? IIRC it is silicon valley that had the most chip making polution, but its much greener now, I think china is fairly good at their chip plants, just not at the power plants powering them. Its not easy being green.
    Guest Post: Top-Tier Chinese Solar Firms Have a Legitimate Cost Advantage : Greentech Media
     
  6. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Solar Panels Trade Case Mocks Washington's Ways - Forbes

    Will this quest for jobs kill many more than it protects like the illfated magnesium tarrif

    https://www.stlbeacon.org/#!/conten...ers_battle_qantidumpingq_tariffs_on_magnesium
    I think I'm now decided. Its a really bad idea to hurt the bulk of the solar industry by raising the price of chips. It sucks that chinese incentives hurt some people, but if the goal is more solar electricity as well as healthy jobs for solar installers, the tarrif will be bad.
     
  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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  8. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    No matter how cheap Chinese panels are, they are too expensive to an unemployed American. It is incredibly short-sided to toss local industry to the grave if unfair trade practices are the cause.

    Let them compete on a level playing field. Of course America was abusive for so long, it is hard to wag our finger at the Chinese now and expect anything but derision and reciprocal threats. The Chinese learned from the best -- the US.
     
  9. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Its a combination. Sunpower has an advantage in efficiency. The chinese only have an advantage in the cost of chips. It currently does not have and advantage in assembling modules. Installation and sales jobs are in the US.

    One other factoid about Sunpower is that it is now 66% owned by french oil company Total SA.

    Breaking News: Commerce Dept. Chinese Solar Panel Dumping Verdict Is Now In : Greentech Media
    At least the tarrif doesn't look like it will be the feared 50%-100% that might severely kill off solar in the US.


    If the tarrif does raise the price of modules $0.30/kwh its a price increase that is manageable for the industry. I still think this is a bad thing for solar. We don't know the final number and it may go up, and there is the likelihood of Chinese retaliation. This is a case of robbing peter (solar power and installers in the US) to pay paul (solar chip makers). The US like the Chinese subsidizes chip makers, the Chinese just do it better.
     
  10. xiaoneitie

    xiaoneitie New Member

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    yes! i also need one