Spark plugs inspection + pcv valve

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by MeGuinness, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. MeGuinness

    MeGuinness Member

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    So I replaced the original pcv valve after 213k ....I then clean the intake manifold ..egr valve pipe..and while I was there inspected sparks plug ...
    I believe this EGR valve is really messing with the engine MVIMG_20171015_170749.jpg MVIMG_20171015_171822.jpg IMG_20171015_150311_1.jpg

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  2. StarCaller

    StarCaller Senior Member

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    how many miles on the spark plugs?
     
  3. MeGuinness

    MeGuinness Member

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    90k ,but cleaned about 10k ago.....it seams like the carbon coming from the egr ....I hate that thing, I drove after all the cleaning,it drives sweet...but u can bet in about 5k will be choking again !! What can happen if I drive with egr disconnected?

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  4. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    Welcome to the club! At PC, we have a love-hate relationship with Gen 3 EGR. It is what allows the Gen 3 to have both fuel economy and horsepower improvements.

    I expound on the ramifications of blocking/turning off the EGR circuit in this thread: https://priuschat.com/index.php?threads/182504/

    Pixel XL ?
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Remove and thorougly clean the intake manifold again, and install an oil catch can on the line between PCV valve and intake manifold. I think 90% of the oil you're seeing is due to the PCV valve.

    Not sure if you've addressed it before, but either way: have a look at the MAP sensor while you're at it; it's very likely oil soaked. It's this, very easy to pull off:

    upload_2017-10-15_15-16-52.png

    Use braklean on the intake manifold, and either electrical contact cleaner or MAF Sensor cleaner on the sensor.

    Have you cleaned the EGR valve and cooler? Watch @NutzAboutBolts excellent videos on the subject. I'd recommend Brakclean for the valve, and strong OxyClean solution for the cooler. With the latter, plug one end, pour the solution in with the hottest tap water you can muster, let it sit for at least an hour, and repeat. It works, will have the cooler brand-new clean!

    If you drain a couple of litres of coolant (at the radiator drain) at the outset, you should have no coolant spill problems. Just pour the drained fluid back into the reservoir after (with the vent valve open till coolant starts coming out), and with a day or two driving it should get back to usual level.

    I don't know for sure, but suspect the heavy carbonning up of the EGR is due to the PCV dumping oil (it's actually seems sort of brew, oil, water, gas and god knows what) into the intake manifold. Not really sure though. Try the oil catch can, and you will waylay most of what's in your intake manifold.
     
  6. MeGuinness

    MeGuinness Member

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    Yes the MAP sensor was full of gunk ...was completely black in colour...once cleaned was back to original colour red.
    I will check in a week for any sign of oil at the bottom of the throttle body...if any there it will mean the new pcv valve isn't the problem.
    Yes I'm contemplating cleaning the EGR cooler...it must be done for sure ..it must be fairly messy inside there.
    Regarding draining coolant...yes already done it when I replaced the water pump at about 205k ,...easy job ...easier then having coolant spilling everywhere or using clamps on the hoses.
    Catch can is on the list depending results at end of week.
    Will keep u updated guys

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  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Yeah clamping the EGR coolant hoses is pointless: they are mostly below the egr valve and cooler. A couple of liter coolant drain gets the level down enough. There's a little residual in the back corner of the cooler, which you can just tip out into your drain container. And the coolant vent valve is directly above the EGR system.

    Oil Catch Can between PCV valve and intake manifold will drastically cut down on the oil incursion. Though I suspect a little is trickling down from the intake ports: when I took my manifold off a second time, I could see a drop or two of fresh oil at the underside of each port.

    I mounted my OCC on the lower cross beam, with a slotted angle bracket. atop the beam. I first bolted it solidly, but then started noticing protesting sounds when I raised the front end with a jack. I then twigged that the front central jacking point is on the underside of that beam. So, I added rubber washers between the slotted angle and beam, just installed one nut finger tight, and torqued a second nut against the first, locking it. That has worked out fine.

    IMG_7598.JPG
    (There are oval openings on the underside of that beam btw. This makes it possible, though difficult, to fish bolts through holes drilled in the top flange of the beam.)
     
    #7 Mendel Leisk, Oct 15, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
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  8. MeGuinness

    MeGuinness Member

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    After how many miles do u empty the OCC? what model is it?so under the intake?thanx

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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    626 km's after installing the OCC I did an oil change, and also opened the drain tap on the OCC, which is readily accesible from below, with the engine underpanel removed. The drain tube is fairly long, the whole thing was clean/dry at install, and basically I got a little burble out of it, maybe a tablespoon. I'm not sure what the capacity is, but I'm pretty comfortable it's at least a cup, and that it'll be fine till my next oil change, 6 months or 8000 km's.

    I cut the PCV hose at the middle, and patched in fuel line (the OCC came with about 3'), with hose barbs and hose clamps. all the hose has inside diameter of 3/8" btw, with the exception of the PCV hose at the intake manifold, which flares out, to maybe 3/4". P/N for that hose is 12261-37060 btw.

    I found the hose barbs very unforgiving, if you for whatever reason need to pull the hoses off. I resorted to blunting the barbs with a file, and putting silicon dielectric compound on the barbs, which helps a bit.

    I think that's a good location for several reasons. It's very convenient to both ends of the PVC hose connection, it's lower (gravity might help a bit), and the cross beam is handy for bolting on a bracket. It's fairly roomy there too, and leaves the the view you see when popping the hood "stock".

    The OCC I got was Moroso 85474 Universal Air/Oil Separator. Morosso also sells several, very similar, but adapted for specific cars, with special brackets and install instructions. Unfortunately they don't have a special kit for the Prius, so the Universal is the way to go. One caveat, they supply bolts for the ring bracket which are hopelessly hard to screw in, they are just standard National Coarse thread, 1/4" IIRC, readily available at hardware stores. Bring the bracket along to verify fit. One caveat: it is not cheap, around $193 canadian dollars when I bought. In the States it's around $140?

    Also, put teflon plumbers tape on all threads into the OCC body. The latter are National Plumbing Thread I believe (slight taper?), and get progressively tighter as you screw the pieces in. I didn't go nuts, got maybe 4 turns on all pieces, called it done.

    The interior of the Morosso is symetrical, so either side can be inlet or outlet. Inside at the top are mesh-filled cavities at each inlet spigot, with a central baffle. Very nicely made, all machined.

    A few pics:

    Components:

    upload_2017-10-15_19-55-45.png
    (Teflon tape not included, nor hose clamps, and those two black screws were hopeless, replaced with NC 1/4" bolts. Only 3' of hose, not enough for higher install.)

    The interior:

    upload_2017-10-15_20-39-44.png
    (I've not taken it apart further, but I did see a disassembly video, in which you see the central baffle that the two black screws go into, and the cylinder, are all one piece. The whole thing starts as an aluminum bar, and then they machined-out pockets for the steel wool mesh, leaving that central portion as a baffle, maybe 1/4" thick.)

    Assembled:

    upload_2017-10-15_19-54-53.png

    Package label:

    upload_2017-10-15_19-58-35.png
    (Kind of an ominous declaration...)

    My makeshift bracket:

    upload_2017-10-15_19-59-21.png

    Holes drilled:

    upload_2017-10-15_20-0-28.png
    (This was somewhat nerve-wracking. First I center punched as best I could, quite a reach. Then I opted to drill pilot holes first, with a dremel with 1/8" bit. Then with a 3/8" bit on hand drill, got it done. But was sweating. Note there are oval openings on underside of beam, just possible to reach through with bolts. The bits of green masking tape just visible on side of beam indicate where the oval openings on underside are.)

    In:

    upload_2017-10-15_20-3-49.png

    Hose configuration, the cut-in-half original hose, rotated down, plus extensions:

    upload_2017-10-15_20-5-45.png
    (PVC valve half of hose on left, larger end half of hose for intake manifold on right.)
     
    #9 Mendel Leisk, Oct 15, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
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  10. 04priusnow

    04priusnow Active Member

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    I am smelling an oil/ gas smell af5er installing my OCC... I think the hoses i got from advanced Auto parts is off gassing or something... Smells like a lawnmower.. its been 5k miles and smell has not gone away

    Nexus 6 ?
     
  11. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    Did you make sure all fittings on the OCC are tight? The ones with the clear sight tube on the side are known to have loose fittings.

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  12. 04priusnow

    04priusnow Active Member

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    Yeah.. the one i have only has an in, out, and screw on top for a vent to atmosphere option. Their is an oring on the can part that unscrews. But it looks fine and is collecting lots of oil...

    Nexus 6 ?
     
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  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Maybe just the hose off-gassing then?

    When I first installed my Moroso with it's drain tap, I managed (numb nuts move...) to leave the tap in the open position. When I test drove, I heard an odd kind of deep resonance sound under acceleration, definitely something new.

    At first I thought oh well, it's the can. But then, no, that shouldn't be: opened it up and sure enough, tap was open. Closed it, and drove again, sound was gone, back to normal.

    Moral of the story I guess: if there were an air leak, you might be hearing a new, odd sound during acceleration.
     
    #13 Mendel Leisk, Oct 19, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
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  14. MeGuinness

    MeGuinness Member

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    04priusnow
    So it is for sure all oil coming from the pcv valve ? Any traces of oil under the throttle body from when u using the OCC ? What do u do with the oil from the catch can...do u put it back in to the engine?
    Which OCC are u using?
    Thanks

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    #14 MeGuinness, Oct 19, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  15. 04priusnow

    04priusnow Active Member

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    I just empty it every other fillup.. so 800ish milrs or so. Theres alot of debris in it.. not sure if i would put it back in the engine or not.. guess you could. I will take a photo of mine tomorrow since ots time to empty again.

    Nexus 6 ?
     
  16. 04priusnow

    04priusnow Active Member

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    Not sure i would reuse the oil.. looks pretty nasty IMG_20171020_171448.jpg

    Nexus 6 ?
     
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  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Maybe "oil" is a misnomer lol.
     
  18. cellculturist

    cellculturist Junior Member

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    If that much oil is coming out of the PCV, then I suspect the culprit is blow-by coming through the compression rings.

    Definitely keep the EGR intact. It’s there for a reason, and does much more good than harm.

    I wouldn’t pour the oil back into the crankcase, unless you are really hurting for cash.

    At 90k, I would seriously look into changing the spark plugs. Expect to see some sort of fouling after so many miles. They can’t stay looking like new forever.


    iPhone ?
     
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Yeah I'm trying to get my head around @04priusnow 's need to empty his oil catch can every 800 miles or so. FWIW, I got a little burble in that distance, about what a (possessed) baby would burp up on your shoulder.
     
  20. MeGuinness

    MeGuinness Member

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    What is the other hose that connects to the intake manifold other then the pcv hose just next to the throttle body? What does it do ... blowing or aspirating ? Thanx

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