SSC40D - They Won't Give My Car Back

Writing as an EE in the computer industry: unless unusual measures have been taken in the design to prevent such damage it takes little energy to ruin most devices. An ECU will be ruined if just one input or output pin is rendered inoperable; it doesn't require reducing the thing to a puddle of smoking slag. Single pin damage can happen far faster than any circuit breaker or fuse can act. Shorting one signal pin to a power pin or even to another signal pin can be enough. Static discharge can do it also.

A firmware update *ought* to be an easy procedure, but if the tech doing it is not accustomed to working on electronics then stuff can happen.

 

ok, now that i'm approaching 5000 miles i'm hesitant to even ask about the ECU update fearing they might fry a perfectly working ECU! what will happen if i refuse the update if they offer it? :roll: i just hate the thought of them screwing up the update process!

 

Thank you so much for support and quick responses! (This board still rocks after all this time...)

Unfortunately the Florida Lemon Law doesn't apply to me, since I had Hedwig imported from Montana. There may be a Montana Lemon Law, but I'll have to look into that if it becomes necessary.

I dropped in to visit with the general manager. They'll be speaking with Scott about his problems lying and dealing with women. They're also working with Enterprise to get me into a Prius in the meantime. (Was that an option to begin with??? :guns

They don't know this yet, but I will be providing them with a very clear invoice as to how much THEY owe ME when this is all over (my payment per diem, and the cost difference in gas - the Sable is costing me about four dollars a day over what my Prius costs. Am I seriously going to nickle and dime them over four dollars? You betcha.) I'm on a priority list - apparently the ECUs are being built only about fast enough to keep up with production, so getting extras (especially when dealerships all over the country are destroying them with this simple procedure) is difficult. Oh, and, admirably, they fully admitted that they totally screwed up. That'll tide me over, along with the Prius rental, provided they can secure one, for a few more days.

Oh, and they wanted me to mention (and I'll admit, this is admirable too) that they don't charge a premium over MSRP (many in central fla, if not all, are kicking in a premium). But they're not taking orders. (What's the point of boasting about that policy when you can't take orders, I don't know.) I honestly stated that I'd be happy to point that out, but that I would still tell people to steer clear of the service department. :naughty:

Hmmm...if mybrid is emoticon abuser, can I be parentheses abuser?

 

Where in Montana? I placed an order in Helena. My son goes to school there so I figured I could visit him at college and get a car. Their wait list was miniscule compared to my local list and I did want a car before the end of the year and the change in tax. Unfortunately I have been hanging around here and hearing all the horror stories. So far everything looks good. Can you give me encouragement?
I hope things go well with your car.

 

When I first went looking for a dealer to place my order for my
Prius the first place I went to was Toyota of Orlando. Since they didn't have one to even show me what it looked like, I went to another dealer.
I had shopped with them before,about 10 years ago, and bought elsewhere because the slime factor in that place just turned me off. The whole feeling of the place is just not right ......in my opinion.

 

I got Hedwig from Kourtney (guy) at Helena Motors in Montana. I even sent them a big basket of goodies from Dean & Deluca when it was all over, I was so pleased. There was difficulty with the paperwork, but other than that, it was a breeze. I had it shipped to me, and after paying the taxes in cash (that was a struggle - I'd forgotten the tax collector don't take American Express), I was all set. It probably won't be so bad for you since you're right there, but they had no idea what to do with a car that was being shipped to Florida. All in all, totally great - I only had to wait 3 weeks for my car from the day I started looking. You'll be just fine!

 

Thank you Thank You THANK YOU! I too am dealing with Kourtney. (small world). You read about all the stuff being pulled on folks and you worry. I ordered about 17 days ago now. I am going fishing for a week with my son and brother in law in 2 weeks it would be ideal to pick up the car then however I expect it in late August. That would be OK too as I could help my son move into his new place before the semester starts and get in one more day of fishing. My son goes to Carroll College you may have seen it while in Helena, or did you do it all over the phone? If you missed the chance to go there it is a very nice town. I really like western Montana. I will send good karma your way.

 

Sorry to hear about Hedwig's unplanned sojourn at your dealership. It IS a little scary to be this far out on the cutting edge of technology and that, I guess, is the flip side of the fun and efficiency the Prius offers.
I don't mean in any way to diminish what you are going through, but I wonder how often this actually happens. For you, it probably doesn't matter since you only have one Prius and that was screwed up by the service department. But, realistically, is this happening "all over", or are these isolated screw ups? My guess (hope, actually) is that Toyota, in their thoroughness, did make sure that their dealerships were savvy enough to service these cars.
I agree with the above posters: you should be compensated for the loss of your car. If you had done the same thing to a car they loaned you, you can bet they would get their car back at YOUR expense. I would consider legal action if you don't get satisfaction.
If it's true that there is a critical shortage of ECU's, then regardless of who did what to your car, it will take a while to fix it, which is all the more reason the dealer should be treating you with kid gloves.
Keep us posted.

 

I don't believe this is happening in great huge quantities - I hear far more stories of people waiting 45-90 minutes for their update than of people waiting 2-4 weeks to get their car back, but the stories are out there. I l think it may just be the guinea pig syndrome - I was probably the first one they had done, and oops!

The service manager hand delivered a tideland pearl (neat!) 2004 to the door at lunch and hauled off The Tank. He even came back when he realized I'd inadvertently left my garage door opener in The Tank. They're doing their best, finally, after 12 days, and I'm sated....for now. I have also learned that THEY are receiving compensation from Toyota for this problem, so maybe it actually was a glitch in the part, and not an incompetent serviceman. That also means that they can just submit my claims for compensation along with their claims for the rent car and the labor/parts. We'll just have to see.

Every newer model car has a computer in it that runs certain vital functions of the vehicle, and so every car has the potential to go down like mine did. I don't blame hybrid technology for the actual mechanical problem, but the limited quantities of parts does kind of stink. When I contacted Toyota corporate, they contacted Toyota Orlando, so everyone knows I'm a squeaky wheel. I'm doing what I can.

 

I'm thinking I am going to stop my moonlight cruising through the desert (I love just driving this car) to stop putting unnecessary miles on Bella. I'm thinking I like to wait as long as possible before subjecting her to the trama (and potential mishandling) of the service department.

What happens after an ECU is replaced? Are there any problems?

 

After replacing it all should be well :_> But the software update does not require replacing the ECU; it gets replaced only if the tech makes a mistake during the update and ruins it.

 

well, for what it's worth, i went to my dealer 2 days ago with a non-functioning touch screen, and he hasn't called toyota yet to find out 'if it's covered under the warranty'

(there is a hairline crack that also showed up in the plastic cover to the screen. there is a thread here started by another owner who had the exact same thing happen)

ugh. no nav, can't do much with the climate... but at least i can drive it fine.

 

Help - Attorney? Lectricar?

Yeah, they still have it, 18 days now. They got the part, finally, four days ago, but apparently it's still not running the way they want it to. It pains me to say it, but I believe I have a case under Lemon Law now. I love Hedwig, but come ON.

So here's my issue. I bought the car from Montana, had it shipped to me in Florida. Montana also has a Lemon Law. So do I need to find an attorney admitted to practice in Montana, or an attorney actually IN Montana, or can any attorney handle this?

 

I don't know but have you asked this dealer some questions like; Have you done this before? Have you worked on Prius before or is this new at this dealership? Is the regular Prius technician there or on vacation? Is the technician new and just out of training? It really sounds like they are fumbling about. I would be talking to the regional Toyota rep. I could ask my son about lawyers in Helena. Many of the Doc's and lawyers and other professionals get their undergraduate work at Carroll College and their may be contacts through the school. He also interns for the state and has contacts at work and at least could ask around. Also call the dealer in Montana they remember you. They called me yesterday to offer me a #7 but I am holding out for a #9.
Henry Drygas

 

Re: Help - Attorney? Lectricar?

It is a lot more restrictive than Florida's:[web:910bce34bf]http://www.carlemon.com/lemon/MT_LemonGuide.html[/web:910bce34bf]

Google Montana Lemon Law Search Results.

 

Not surprising Montana errors on the conservative side. One of Lowest minimum wage in the US (speaking as a father who has a kid in college who is working there) One wonders wether one good lawyer letter to the local dealer who does not know about Montana laws would be enough to tweak them when the time comes. On the other hand from what I have seen the upper levels of Toyota seem to support Prius owners. I suspect they have much invested in "this beta platform". I would still work the regional Toyota level and call Helena.

 

Info from the Yahoo groups indicates that the problem arises when the procedure is aborted before reprogramming of the EPROM in the ECU is completed. This is most commonly because the testing device's internal battery is not fully charged at the start of the procedure. Reportedly, what happens is that the electrical load is then put on the car's 12 volt battery. If the car's battery can't handle the load for the 45 minutes or so that the procedure requires, the procedure aborts and the EPROM winds up scrambled. Apparently, there's no recovery from this other than to replace the ECU.

Seems like it would be a good idea for the dealer to put a charger on the car's jump point before starting the flash procedure.

CR

 

wouldn't it just make more sense for toyota to send out EEPROMs and just swap them out in the ECU instead of programing right into the ECU? i think this would save a lot of hassle on everyone's part.

-drew