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steering response of 15inch wheel prius vs 17inch wheel

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by Frank24, Aug 16, 2015.

  1. Frank24

    Frank24 Junior Member

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    I own a 2013 Person with 17inch factory wheels and a 2015 trim level IV equipped with 15 inch wheels.

    My questions about the steering input/response and "feel"…..
    The Persona has a distinctively tighter and more responsive, and subjectively, more secure feeling.
    While the 2015 version with 15 inch wheels feels "looser" and is very touchy and sensitive to any input. Other have described this has "zero bandwidth"

    Is the difference in steering feel solely due to the difference in the different size wheels/tire?
    Or is there something different from the factory in the steering rack column and steering ration?

    IN other words, would swapping tires on the respective cars switch the steering accordingly, or is there something else intrinsically different between these models?

    Thanks
     
  2. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    The 17 inch wheel equipped Prius supposedly has a different steering ratio. However, many ppl mount 17 inch oem wheels on cars which came with 15 inch wheels successfully.

    The 17 inch tires have shorter sidewalls which flex much less, and have better response time to improve cornering and handling.
     
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    They have different EPS motors and different steering ratios. The models with 17" wheels have a noticeably quicker steering ratio (1/4 turn to make a right turn vs. 1/2 turn of the wheel for the 15"), so the models with 17" wheels respond with less steering wheel input compared to the 15" wheel models. I can't remember the exact numbers but it's something along the lines of 2.74 turns lock-to-lock for 17" vs. 3.25 lock-to-lock for the 15".
     
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  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    We took our first test drive in 15" model, second in 17" model (Can Touring). I felt much more at ease with the Touring, the steering felt more natural. Bought it the same day.
     
  5. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

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    How is it possible for the car with 17" wheels to feel "more responsive," yet be less "sensitive to any input"?
     
  6. Frank24

    Frank24 Junior Member

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    I meant that the 17 inch equipped car feels more natural and I am in more control of the steering, its more responsive to my *intendend* inputs, whereas the 15inch is so hypersensitive to steering input, that the slightest finger touch can cause significant change in steering
    and a feeling of being slightly "out of control" or disconnected .

    Its a feeling thing, if that jibberish makes any sense….
     
  7. Siward

    Siward Active Member

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    I drive on 215/45r17 tires in the summer and 195/65r15 tires in the winter. Both are stock Prius sizes.

    The tire wraps around the steel/alloy rim. There is more air between the rim and the ground in the 15" vs the 17" stock Prius tire. The more technical term is tire profile. The 15" tire has a bigger air cushion, so it will deform or push-in a bit every time you turn before the responsive force is felt by by the rim. It also means that the 15" is a more comfy ride because of the bigger air cushion because it will deform more every time you go over a bump.

    Lastly, the 15" gets better fuel economy because it is lighter.
     
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  8. Frank24

    Frank24 Junior Member

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    OK, thanks, that is exactly what I am after.

    So if you do an aftermarket change of the wheel size from 15-17 for instance, you can't expect the steering to feel *exactly*
    the same as the car equipped from the factory with 17inch, is that correct?

    Though handling/cornering will improved with larger wheels/wider tires, this is only part of the difference as you noted.
     
  9. Frank24

    Frank24 Junior Member

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    Yes I actually like the comfy and cushy ride of the 15inch (but like the steering of the 17inch), but there is also a marked difference in how the steering wheel responds and feels. I was wondering if that is solely due to the difference in tire size, but apparently not as the steering ratio on the cars is also inherently different
     
  10. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    Try raising the tyre pressure of the 15" equipped car. I use 40 PSI front and 38 PSI rear. The ride will be slightly harsher but the steering a little tighter. In my opinion, the 35 PSI on the door placard is just too low.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I think you've nailed it. The models that come stick with 17" have a different steering feel. Like Siward, I swap over, from 17" to 15" every winter, the steering still feels solid, planted.

    They should use that steering confugration on all models, my 2 cents. Only thing, turning radius is a bit bigger, and appreciably so, in compact parking lots.
     
  12. Frank24

    Frank24 Junior Member

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    Yea strange they don't use same steering components.
    I see the advantage of offering a choice between tire sizes, but the steering is appreciably better on the 17inch model and
    so nebulous and vague on the 15 inch. Id think you'd be hard pressed to find someone that disagrees. 15 inch wheel though is another story because of the edge in comfort/Fuel efficiency

    I suppose there is no *reasonable* way to change (upgrade) the steering configuration through Toyota. Its not like its a software change or anything, its an integral mechanical part we are talking about?
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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  14. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    There are two EPS motors available. The 17" wheel OEM equipped cars get the "stronger" one. The 15" OEM equipped cars get the "weaker" one. As posted above the ratios are different, and perhaps that is why one is "stronger". According to information from Toyota. You -CAN- put the 17" wheels on the cars that came with 15" ones (the wheel tyre combo diameter is almost the same - set by using a lower profile tyre on the 17"). Whether it will eventually cause "problems" is debatable (and will be now that I've posted it). -Usually- a car manufacturer uses stronger parts only then they are needed. ;) In this case it may be mainly because the "weaker" EPS might cause more effort from the driver, and we all know how lazy they can be.

    The tyre patch is larger on the 17" wheel/tyre, resulting in higher forces required to actually -turn- it (while stopped). The 17" also should give higher braking force (quicker stops) and higher cornering forces, but also poorer mileage, due to higher drag.

    There are -always- trade-offs! :)

    As I implied in my earlier post, you can "tweak" the variables with things like tyre pressure and tyre brand/type, even in the same diameter wheel. Also larger diameter wheels tend to be heavier, unless you buy really nice (read expensive) ones like the Rays "Ecodrive" model intended for the Prius. I would -still- love of have a set of those, but what would I do with the nice OEM wheels? ;)
     
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  15. Frank24

    Frank24 Junior Member

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    Thanks for the response. Is it possible to replace EPS motors? I assume yes, its just a matter of it being cost-effective to the customer.
    Any idea what the part # would be for the Prius EPS versions so I could look into it?
     
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The electric motors I think are more to do with the feel of it. The steering ratio is a matter of the rack and pinion setup so I suspect you need to replace that and not just the motor.
     
  17. Frank24

    Frank24 Junior Member

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    I found the Toyota part # for the steering column assembly
    w/15 inch wheel - #4520047140
    #4520047140: Toyota. Electric Power Steering Motor. Steering Column.

    w/17 inch wheel - #4525047320
    #4525047230: Toyota. Electric Power Steering Motor. Steering Column.

    Do you think swapping that would be sufficient to make the steering feel heavier and less "loose" ?
    Or would rack and pinion replacement also be necessary ? (parts below)

    Or in other words, can you change the steering column to 17inch setup wile keeping steering gearing at 15 inch setup? Or are they not compatible like that.

    w/15 inch - # 4551047040

    2015 Toyota Prius Power Steering Parts & Compents steering gear & linkage Gear Assy, Steering - OEM Toyota Parts

    w/17 inch - # 4551047050
    2015 Toyota Prius Power Steering Parts & Compents steering gear & linkage Gear Assy, Steering - OEM Toyota Parts

    Thanks for any more knowledge, or even pure speculation
     
    #17 Frank24, May 3, 2016
    Last edited: May 3, 2016
  18. That_Prius_Car

    That_Prius_Car Austin Kinser

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    So, technically, it wouldn't be smart for me to install the 17's on my car since my EPS motor isn't that strong? I've thought about putting the 17's on but wasn't sure. Don't want to break anything or burn anything up.
     
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Lots of owners have swapped out the OEM 15" for 17", it'll clear, and I'd suspect steering feel about the same.

    Personally, with our OEM being 17", I've thought about doing the opposite switch, for softer ride and better mpg. But I doubt I'll ever follow through, too much expense and hassle.

    And ultimately I prefer to keep it stock.
     
  20. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    I've switched out the 15s on some of my cars to 17s. Steering feel is the same at low speeds, more stable at higher speeds.

    Best thing I've done for the cars

    SM-N900P ?