Studdering misfire on startup after cleaning Battery cooling fan air filter

Discussion in 'Prius v Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by PriusGoonie, Oct 2, 2022.

  1. PriusGoonie

    PriusGoonie Junior Member

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    Help please, I have no idea what's going on here.

    It now starts with a misfiring type rattle, pretty intense.

    Story:

    I clean off the main EV battery's intake filter of dust, it was almost completely covered by dust. I did this because there was the error, "Maintenance, battery parts, bring to Dealer" something like that, and after I cleaned the filter it went away after driving a bit.

    I go fill up gas at a Costco. Regular gas pretty sure. Pretty sure. I drive 20 more miles up the road.

    I park in a basement garage with a 55 degree slope or so going down, park.

    I start it up an hour later.

    I feel nothing, it's fine like normal. I go take several lefts to exit, I go to the bottom of the ramp up. I accelerate, it hickups several times like rattling or gears slipping or something. It gets up the hill the rest of the way fine, I drive not 30 feet down the road, same thing it hickups, shakes, only for 2 seconds or so, then it's fine. I drive around the block, gun it, it's fine.

    I stop at a gas station for a sec and turn it off. I turn it back on, go to a light, take a left at 10-15 mph, accelerate to 20 and it shakes again, like big dimples in the road or something. Much more severe.

    I go back on the freeway, fine. I drive 70 more miles away. I park.

    I start it up 15 minutes later, and there is an intense rattling that I can only describe as being a metal part bouncing around the engine, or a misfire.

    I unplugged the negative cable of the regular battery for 60 seconds, reconnect it.

    I try again. Same thing.

    I'm now stranded.

    Please help me understand what is going on. I'm having it towed in a few hours, Toyota on Monday.

    What else could it be.

    This makes no sense.

    At first I thought Transmission.

    Is it that the higher efficiency air flow on the main battery has given a surge to the system, and overloaded something and killed the timing?

    Is there a reset procedure I can try for the dash?

    Please help me
     
  2. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    Bad gas? Water in the gas and sump?
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Underfoot

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    How many miles on it? Have you cleaned the EGR system? Is coolant level stable in the engine coolant reservoir? Any dash lights now?

    Just a little levity; this CAN'T be:

     
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  4. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Ignition misfires can feel very strong in these cars, more than is usually noticed in other cars.

    Causes can be all over the place- as little as a loose wire terminal and as bad as a breached head gasket. That you won't know until the pros get in there.
     
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  5. PriusGoonie

    PriusGoonie Junior Member

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    20 degree slope
     
  6. PriusGoonie

    PriusGoonie Junior Member

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    No lights, I mean only once while I was trying to stick it in neutral for the tow truck driver it flashed the triangular ⚠️ symbol quickly but went away. Coolant's level, oil is level, oil still has 4/5ths life left it's the correct oil as well.

    No EGR cleaning.

    But, at one point about 6 months ago I decided to inspect and maybe clean behind the butterfly, and I found a slight greenish gas smelling liquid puddle in there, asked around no one could figure out what that was. Reason being the engine had been roughly starting for a month or so previous; It would gallop alive just a sudden jolt of the car then run smooth-ish, a little loud compared to when I bought it a year previous at 145k miles.

    Look in photos
     

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    #6 PriusGoonie, Oct 2, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2022
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Underfoot

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    145k and no EGR clean out is getting into head gasket failure territory, for 3rd gen Prius and Prius v (which has essentially the same engine. Common symptom is rattle/shake on cold-start, due to (uncompressible) coolant accumulation in a cylinder (typically cylinder one or two).

    boroscope inspection with the coolant system pressurized, and/or leak down test can verify or dismiss.

    more info on EGR cleaning, and head gasket repair, in my signature. If on a phone turn to landscape to see signatures.
     
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  8. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    For once I agree with the Canadian with Dutch ancestors. Your aside later in this thread tells the story.
    Classic head gasket, at the time somewhere between early and moderate, which has now progressed to severe. Given you have driven it for sometime in Nowhere, California (a location Rod Serling would warn about) your best bet is to take it to a dealer or independent hybrid shop for a borescope inspection under coolant pressurization.

    7659EF07-EA71-4013-8B19-859FFAAA9599.jpeg
     
    #8 rjparker, Oct 2, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2022
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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Underfoot

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    I had my share of Dutch Uncles, it rubbed off... :whistle:
     
  10. PriusGoonie

    PriusGoonie Junior Member

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    Do either of you guys know how to get into the maintenance/service menu? I keep looking, there isn't an instruction so far for this specific car that doesn't have a "Car" button. It has a gracenote stereo in picture. I want to see the menu that will show you the battery voltage. I have a funny feeling that my inverter may killed some connection to the 12v battery due to an increase in power from cleaning the battery cooling fan filter, as it happened only an hour previous, and things like this usually aren't just coincidences for me, plus there is a major recall on those inverters. Got a funny feeling. An increase/surge and normal operation of the fan more efficiently cooling the ev battery, I keep thinking a reset needs/needed to happen after cleaning that scrim. It just feels very very suspect with that recall, something to do with the inverter not being able to go into a safe mode. And yeah, seems like head gasket or PCV or another leak as well too, the puddle was literally only a tablespoon in liquid and I don't know if it was the spray mixed with whatever other gunk in there, can't remember if I found it before or after I sprayed.

    If the 12v battery were a little low on power that could indeed cause misfire under some circumstances correct?
     

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    #10 PriusGoonie, Oct 2, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2022
  11. PriusGoonie

    PriusGoonie Junior Member

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    Nowhere, CA is actually San Francisco. Trecherous roads at times.
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Underfoot

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    Just measure 12 volt with a digital volt meter. Likely a red herring* though.

    The “green gas” you mention is PCV puke, a contributor to carbonning up, but not a smoking gun.

    * Dutch Uncle delicacy
     
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  13. PriusGoonie

    PriusGoonie Junior Member

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    Yeah I'm lazy today, got two meters at home 8 miles away. One is around 20 years old, runs on a watch battery, most of the time it works
     
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  14. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Gasketmasters may be your friend.
     
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  15. PriusGoonie

    PriusGoonie Junior Member

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    This is Toyota's diagnosis attached. They said there is coolant in all of the cylinders.. Not sure how they know that. They said they checked and found it was 7 psi instead of 16 psi, somewhere. I asked what was performed to find this out, the rookie said something like "Oh.. service type stuff". They said it will cost $5,000 to do the head gasket.

    They also said they need to take it apart to find out what's wrong, the damage.

    They also offered to buy my car from me for $5,000 right after, which they kept pressing on in 4 occasions, once over the phone, 3 times in person, which is what they do to every customer that has an issue. Seen in reviews.

    P0304 is cylinder 4 misfire. They said all the cylinders had coolant and were misfiring.

    What they didn't mention is that there is an intake manifold gasket which I found out a few hours ago, which is not the Head Gasket. There was green fluid inside of the intake manifold.

    When there is a blown head gasket, does coolant go into the intake manifold?

    They also said there was carbon found in the coolant.

    It took them a day and a half to tell me this, said they'd get back to me the morning of the second day when I called in, I heard back 6 hours later..

    They want 20 hours of labor at $230 an hour, and $500 for parts.

    Other mechanics non-dealer are offering $3,800 - $4,000 for a resurfacing/machining.

    Took the guy 25 minutes to, supposedly get the mechanic's notes. Why do I feel paranoid.

    They also mention Engine Teardown.
     

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    #15 PriusGoonie, Oct 6, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2022
  16. PriusGoonie

    PriusGoonie Junior Member

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    I think I accidently replied to another post elsewhere, anyways:

    This is Toyota's diagnosis attached. They said there is coolant in all of the cylinders.. Not sure how they know that. They said they checked and found it was 7 psi instead of 16 psi, somewhere. I asked what was performed to find this out, the rookie said something like "Oh.. service type stuff". They said it will cost $5,000 to do the head gasket.

    They also said they need to take it apart to find out what's wrong, the damage.

    They also offered to buy my car from me for $5,000 right after, which they kept pressing on in 4 occasions, once over the phone, 3 times in person, which is what they do to every customer that has an issue. Seen in reviews.

    P0304 is cylinder 4 misfire. They said all the cylinders had coolant and were misfiring.

    What they didn't mention is that there is an intake manifold gasket which I found out a few hours ago, which is not the Head Gasket. There was green fluid inside of the intake manifold.

    When there is a blown head gasket, does coolant go into the intake manifold?

    They also said there was carbon found in the coolant.

    It took them a day and a half to tell me this, said they'd get back to me the morning of the second day when I called in, I heard back 6 hours later..

    They want 20 hours of labor at $230 an hour, and $500 for parts.

    Other mechanics non-dealer are offering $3,800 - $4,000 for a resurfacing/machining.

    Took the guy 25 minutes to, supposedly get the mechanic's notes. Why do I feel paranoid.

    They also mention Engine Teardown.
     

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  17. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Once again, classic head gasket symptoms.

    I would take it to Gasketmasters. You can get a second opinion and a rebuilt engine if needed and save a couple thousand.

    Detecting hydrocarbons in the coolant is conclusive and is an advanced hg failure. If they know coolant is in the cylinder after an overnight pressurization, they must have done a borescope inspection. It is possible the rough startup was diagnostic enough. If you were talking to a service adviser, their technical knowledge and mechanic translations often suffer.

    Fluids in the intake manifold are common but comes from the pcv, egr and condensation, not the hg. Probably worn rings contributing to blowby.

    If this story did not repeat so often it would be easier to write off this as salesmen tactics. Maybe if the service advisers were experienced mechanics and were not on commission their explanations would be better.
     
    #17 rjparker, Oct 6, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2022
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  18. PriusGoonie

    PriusGoonie Junior Member

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    Fluids like coolant? Is it possible coolant could have come from these places? Gasket Masters in Manteca? Is that a good place?

    Thanks
     
  19. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    A $230 per hour labor rate? Rapacious!
     
  20. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Not coolant in the intake. Combination of fuel, oil, exhaust gasses and water from condensate. Extremely common on gen3s and the reason some install "oil catch cans" in the pcv line.
     
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