Suspension upgrades TRD Sportivo, touring

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sexynumbers @ Nov 13 2007, 10:07 AM) [snapback]538964[/snapback]</div>

Regarding the cost of a Touring upgrade vs. TRD Sportivo, the dealer will be able to give you the parts cost (they will be the only source for the Touring edition bits). Add in the labor and alignment cost and you have one item of information.

Also, the TRD will lower the car ~1 inch. If you have problems with clearance (like going into driveways), the TRD may not be for you.

I personally did a whole set of suspension mods to 'rod out' my ride. And I have a Touring edition. I have added the TOM'S Front (Upper and Lower) & Rear Suspension Braces (along with 205mm tires). The car handles completely different than the stock Prius. If you have driven a MINI, you have an idea of how my car with suspension mods handles - much more like the MINI than the base Prius. Mind you, the Prius will not out-handle a MINI; but no more boat-like handling in the turns. It is also much more resistant to cross-winds.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Nov 13 2007, 02:21 PM) [snapback]538998[/snapback]</div>

Have you driven a TRD suspension kit on another Prius by chance? I'm not sure I will like a lowered Prius, but the stock handling is a wee bit scary. I'm sure tinkering with the alignment will help too?

FYI - I drive a 2005 JCW Mini set up for the track. Fun!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelb @ Nov 13 2007, 02:19 PM) [snapback]539085[/snapback]</div>

If the alignment is at spec, I wouldn't look to fiddle with that to solve handling issues. I have not driven a Prius with TRD Sportivo. My issues at the outset with TRD were increased ride harshness (too many accidents that were not my fault has screwed up L-3, L-4 & L-5 discs) and lowered ride height (I have a MINI with the Sport Suspension and box stock, I have clearance issues with it, so no lowering for me).

If $ are a consideration, you could try the BT stiffening plate as a first step that is also the lowest cost. After the BT stiffening plate, you are looking at some coin. The TOM'S suspension braces price out to somewhere near the cost of the TRD Sportivo springs & shocks. Depending on the cost of Touring edition shocks and springs, that might be an intermediate step after the BT plate. Need more handling, then go with the TOM'S bits and wider tires.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelb @ Nov 13 2007, 02:19 PM) [snapback]539085[/snapback]</div>

What have you done to the JCW? They are definitely fun!

 

Have you already done the wheel and tire upgrade?
Honestly you may want to go that route first. A trick suspension is only as good as the tries that stick you to the road and a mush tall sidewall just doesn't cut it for spirited driving.

The 17" wheels and 215/45/17 tires I used to run were a night and day difference compared to the stockers in terms of handling/cornering/road feel. Too bad the hurt my milage so.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Nov 13 2007, 08:48 PM) [snapback]539267[/snapback]</div>

The discussion about which to do first (tires vs. suspension) could go on forever. I was making comments based on stretching $ as far as possible. A /45 series tire can make up for deficient shocks and the rest of the suspension bits. Cost of the larger tires & wheels can get close to the TRD Sportivo as well. Too much rotational mass and the /45 series tire actually can become a hindrance to handling. However, with good shocks and suspension bits, you can go with taller tires and still have a great handling car. My MINI sits on 205/50-16 tires (and 12 lb. SSR Comps). But it also has Koni FSD shock absorbers, which make a world of difference - soft riding until you get into the corners, and then it is another matter. The Prius sits on 205/60-15 tires (and 10 lb. Motegi Traklites) with all of the suspension bits save for the TRD stuff. The combination of larger rubber contact patch with no weight penalty for the shocks to overcome certainly doesn't hurt matters.

It is all about balance.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Nov 14 2007, 12:36 AM) [snapback]539277[/snapback]</div>

has anyone tried Tein?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Nov 13 2007, 09:36 PM) [snapback]539277[/snapback]</div>

I won't disagree. I learned all about balance when I tried to autocross my old C5 with superhard runflat tires. lol

A little slide

A big slide

From a money standpoint I was assuming one could wait until they needed new tires and then you are really only looking at the cost of rims which should run you no more than $130-$250/each. Unless you go nutty like you did for crazy ultra-lights.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Nov 13 2007, 09:46 PM) [snapback]539216[/snapback]</div>

Re the mini...P-flex LCA bushings, steering rack bushing, adjustable rear upper and lower control arms(hiem joints are great when used at the track) Wilwood 12.4" kit, Webb rear bar, Megan ( integrated camber plate and pillow ball) and H&R adjustable coilovers - niether worked very well due to poorly designed bump stops and springs that were too short for this application. BBS RGR wheels with Toyo RA1. The car was lowered about 3/4" at first and then 1.5" with a total wheel offset up front at 23mm and 33mm rear. Front rates were 469# and rears 350#. Fun and easy to drive fast after the spring and bumpstop issues were corrected.

Re the Prius...not sure I understand the L-3, L-4 & L-5 disc connection with the suspension. Can you elaborate?

And I agree with upgrading tires first so long as the specific tire can work with the stock suspension. At some point, a given tire will work better with greater roll control. I'm not planning to turn the Prius into a mini

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelb @ Nov 14 2007, 05:35 AM) [snapback]539372[/snapback]</div>

The discs are in varying stages of degeneration (L5 is pretty much gone). Bumps (from a suspension that is too harsh) will trigger numbness in my legs from pressure exerted on the spinal cord. I also get a good neck muscle spasm (another legacy from being rear-ended a couple of times) from harsh shocks. Before I swapped out the OEM shocks and 17 inch runflats on the MINI for the Koni FSDs and 205/50-16 non-runflats, the MINI was on the verge of being sold.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelb @ Nov 14 2007, 05:35 AM) [snapback]539372[/snapback]</div>

There would be much more to do than tires and suspension braces to turn the Prius into a MINI. A multi-link suspension would be a required starting point. My point is that there is a lot that can be done to 'improve' the Prius' handling from the baseline of what comes from the factory. The challenge is to balance everything out - go overboard with tires (wider and dimensionally narrow - /45 series) and you may introduce a problem in regard to rotational mass (from the tires plus wheels) overwhelming the suspension (even with the TRD suspension as Pinto Girl seems to be experiencing). Fortunately, for not too much $ a lot can be done with the Prius.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Nov 13 2007, 11:11 PM) [snapback]539317[/snapback]</div>

Nothing like runflats for spinning. I wonder if they weren't originally designed for spinning and then the marketers came out with the 'runflat' moniker....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Nov 13 2007, 11:11 PM) [snapback]539317[/snapback]</div>

But if one were to wait until the OEM tires wore out, the period of waiting could be pure torture.

Before I pulled the trigger on the Touring edition, I knew that I was going to need to improve the handling of the car if I was going to like it (the dealer let me have one of the Service dept. loaner Prius for the weekend, so I knew all about the boat-like handling going in). After I returned the loaner, I spent an afternoon on Tirerack.com looking for a wider tire solution. Each wheel & tire combination I looked at was heavier than the OEM spec. I knew from my experience with the MINI (I traded 17 inch runflats at 55 lbs/corner for a wheel & tire solution that was 33 lbs/corner and in the process lost a fat phantom passenger) that if I added weight, the performance would suck, so I kept looking. Finally when 16 and 17 inch wheels were not going to be a solution, I did a search for 15 inch wheels and magically, the Motegi's popped up. At 10 lbs/wheel, there was something with real possibilities. A search of 15 inch tires brought back a number of candidates and I settled on the Exaltos since I had real good experience with them on the MINI. At that point, I had a definite solution set - wider, stickier tires with a total (wheel & tire) weight that was the same as OEM. From searching the SigmaAutomotive site (courtesy of PC.com), I knew options were available if I needed further improvement in the handling dept.

At that point, it was time to call the sales rep and wait out availability on a Black/Bisque Touring edition with package #6, which was a whole other experience.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Nov 14 2007, 12:34 PM) [snapback]539505[/snapback]</div>

I was totally lost, sorry to read about your back. Even with all of the work on the mini, the ride is a little better than the stocker. Amazing, and not; the mini's stock valving has a very aggressive velocity curve.

I've read a couple of threads about the Prius' non-adjustable rear suspension...and that it is possible that toe is off a lot from the factory. What can be done about this? Shims?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Nov 14 2007, 12:34 PM) [snapback]539505[/snapback]</div>

I was totally lost, sorry to read about your back. Even with all of the work on the mini, the ride is a little better than the stocker. Amazing, and not; the mini's stock valving has a very aggressive velocity curve.

I've read a couple of threads about the Prius' non-adjustable rear suspension...and that it is possible that toe is off a lot from the factory. What can be done about this? Shims?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Nov 14 2007, 09:54 AM) [snapback]539521[/snapback]</div>

I guess it depends on one's perspective. I don't feel that the factory equipment is a torture to drive. Sure it's not as nice as my old combo but I don't feel it is horrible. That being said I'm not driving in snowy conditions or monsoons so my experience may be different than someone commuting in the Sahel, India or Denali National Park. Haha Besides, the Integrities wear out pretty quick anyway.

I know what you mean though, just givign you crap.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelb @ Nov 14 2007, 01:05 PM) [snapback]539631[/snapback]</div>

Shims are the only real solution; and those are totally custom at this point - Toyota doesn't supply shims for the Prius rear suspension.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Nov 14 2007, 09:06 PM) [snapback]539749[/snapback]</div>

...do Toyota acknowledge the 'problem'?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelb @ Nov 16 2007, 05:40 AM) [snapback]540491[/snapback]</div>

Well.... Kind of... If the alignment can't be set within specification during the warranty period, parts get replaced....