Synthetic or Not? OIL

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ryn01599 @ Sep 16 2006, 04:23 PM) [snapback]320598[/snapback]</div>

most people here will agree that synthetic is better, though it's not necessary. not sure the problems you've heard about, but there is only one i know of. if you use synthetic during breakin, it's possible the rings will not seat right due to lack of friction. but toyota (and pretty much all other manufacturers) now break in the engine before it is installed in the car, so you don't have to worry about that. btw, i use mobil 1 synthetic.

just keep records of the date and milage of when you did the change. reciepts if possible too. though, i don't see them asking for records unless the problem is directly related.

i believe it's also you make more left turns than right turns, or is it the other way around...

 

The only down side to synthetic as compared to regular oil is the price. Other than that, it's pretty much better in every way.

Rotating tires is a good idea. THere is no cospiracy in getting you, "to rotate them to get you to buy all 4 at once..."

It actually keeps your tires going longer as you will be spreading the wear among hte tires. It also makes it so that you have consistant wear on all tires so that you don't get any surprises when driving. If you have plenty of tread on two and no tread on the other two, the handling will be compromised.

But don't take my word for it. Ask any expert, and they'll tell you the same.

 

Synthetic oil is one way to lessen, however slightly, one's use of petroleum. I avoid Mobil 1 because Exxon/Mobil is probably the most irresponsible (oil) company on the planet and THAT is a tough contest.

Synthetic oil keeps is lubricating potency longer than conventional oil and doesn't break down very rapidly. Since the ICE in the Prius runs at optimal rpm and power, it's subject to less wear and stress than the engine in a conventional car, which means, relatively speaking, there isn't as much improvement advantage of synthetic over petroleum oil in the Prius as there would be in a regular car.

It's cleaner. Go for it.
B

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kDB @ Sep 16 2006, 09:12 PM) [snapback]320661[/snapback]</div>

If you follow the owner's manual, Toyota has you rotate tires front to back, keeping them on the same side. I rotate them at home. Not sure I'd pay someone $25 or $30 to rotate tires, especially the Integrities.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Sep 19 2006, 04:25 PM) [snapback]321867[/snapback]</div>

Keeping them on the same side is a rule for any radial.... otherwise the cords could split.
Something about them shifting just a bit due to the way they are wound inside, if you put them on the other side, it makes them turn the opposite direction they were turning before " unless you dismount and remount them".. the slop then shifts the other direction to cause a split in the steel cords.

I may not have my facts just right, but Its something along those lines.....

 

Okay, here's a new one:

Today, when I picked up my 2005 from its 35,000 mile service, the invoice said they had used 4 quarts of shop oil instead of the 3.5 quarts of MobilOne I had left. (A quick investigation showed that they had used my synthetic after all, and the shop charge for oil was reversed.)

But the service manager told me that Toyota "now recommends against synthetic oil," because, as he claimed, "it's so slippery they worry about it working its way back into the intake." (I'm pretty sure these are the words he used.)

Has anybody ever heard anything like this? Was he just being defensive after I had called him on a shop/charge error?

Dave

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveShepherd @ Oct 21 2006, 04:04 PM) [snapback]336208[/snapback]</div>

When I had my oil done at the dealer a week or so ago I gave them 4 quarts of synthetic and told them to put in 3.5. They only asked why I didn't want to put in the recommended amount, not advising me to use dino instead. They were selling synthetic oil so I'm surprised about Toyota having problems.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveShepherd @ Oct 21 2006, 04:04 PM) [snapback]336208[/snapback]</div>

Dealers have a way of saying "things" did you talk to the tech that did the work?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveShepherd @ Oct 21 2006, 06:04 PM) [snapback]336208[/snapback]</div>

I don't know much about oil, but that smells like B.S. to me.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brandon @ Oct 21 2006, 11:11 PM) [snapback]336321[/snapback]</div>

I don't know much about oil either, but viscosity is viscosity. I've always assumed that the synthetic just maintained its viscosity for a much longer interval. I.e., it's not broken down by engine heat, etc.

Dave M.

 

Windstrings, the limitation on reversing the direction of rotation of radial tires is at best a recollection of how they were initially manufactured. It no longer holds except for 'unidirectional' tires, based on their tread design.

Concerning 'slippery' synthetic oil in the intake, I am getting the idea that all Prius will do that to a small degree without regard to what oil is used. It is just something that needs to be cleaned up.

Synthetic oil will last longer in terms of holding viscosity and not depleting its acid neutralizing ability, for at least 10k miles in Prius it seems. Whether conventional oils will do as well has really not been explored. I'd doubt it though. The weakest case for synthetic oil use is for those who continue to change oil at 5 k lintervals (or less).

 

The more I've thought about it, I'm quite sure that service manager was saying the first defensive thing that came into his mind and mouth. How the heck can oil be "too slippery" for a car?!?

I had just called his shop on charging me for a product I didn't receive, and I also suggested that somebody at the dealer's didn't know the oil capacity for a Prius.

I know this last point is true, because last year the service writer phoned me to tell me I hadn't left enough oil for them to put in. I had left my standard 3.5 quarts of MobilOne, and he told me that wasn't enough. I advised him to read the service specs for this car, and to have his guys do the oil change correctly.

 

That does sound like a nervous reaction. I talked to several of the service techs and wrote to Toyota before having them switch to the Synthetic. (I paid in advance for the services on the Prius.) The official response from Toyota was that as long as it was the correct viscosity you were fine. But you would void the warranty if you changed back to regular oil after using Synthetic. This was the same response that I got from the Service techs and the Service writer. It costs an additional $34 above the normal oil change and the oil is Toyota's own Synthetic. The price is high but what the hey... I now have a note that says *Synthetic Oil Only* when the Service writer brings up my car on the computer. Interesting.

The two biggest changes I saw with changing to Synthetic in the Prius were much shorter times before the engine shuts off after a cold start and the engine sound changed. Not louder or quieter, just different.

 

ROTATING TIRES - It is a good idea to rotate tires. Front tires get a lot more wear due to the constant turning. Keeping them on the same side, as adviced is also a good idea - the constant leaning when making a turn puts a lot of stress on one side of the tire - switching the stress could effect the integrity of the tire. I don't know it all, but used to work in an auto shop.

 

I would like to see something like that in writing. Statements like that from service departments must make Toyota nervous.

 

Quote Ryan: "...they want you to rotate them to get you to buy all 4 at once?"

Hey, Ryan... it's not a conspiracy. Overall, it PAYS to rotate your tires regularly. Yes, they will all need replacing at once, but you're likely to get better mileage and safer performance. Front tires wear faster due to carrying more weight (that's why Toyota specifies 2# higher pressure for front tires) and cornering loads. I rotate per Toyota's recommendation in the Owner's Manual - front to back without criss-crossing.

As for synthetic motor oil: I believe it provides better lubrication. A dealer might charge somewhat more to use synthetics than their bulk oil. I purchase Mobil-1 5W30 and have my dealer use my oil which overall costs me just a little more. I waited until the 10,000 mile service to change to synthetic. Overfilling the oil CAN cause oil to back up into the intake manifold, so it's wise to be sure the oil level is at or below the "full" dot on your dipstick. I provide 3½ quarts which results in a level about 1/8" to 1/4" below full - just right. Toyota does *NOT* specify against synthetic.

 

I'm going to go with NOT. And I don't mean "not synthetic" - I mean NOT OIL.

Drive an EV, and don't use crank case oil at all!

But just to play fair... in my gas-guzzling Prius I do use Mobil1 pure synthetic. Does it make a difference? NO clue. Does it hurt? I seriously doubt it.

 

I had the choice of 5W30 part synthetic oil, or the 0W40 synthetic that the shop recommended when I bought oil today. So I bought the lighter synthetic to see if it made a difference. It was aimed at performance cars apparently though, so it was 38 quid, as opposed to the 20 or so I'd normally pay.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(molgrips @ Nov 19 2006, 08:52 AM) [snapback]351701[/snapback]</div>

If that shop recommended a 0w-40 you might want to consider going some place else. 5w-30 is the recommended viscosity and if you wanted something different you might try 5w-20. Thicker is not better in modern engines. Toyota has gone to 5w-20 for most of their models and maybe the Prius will follow. If you want to try a 5w-20 in your Prius, look at the specs. You might what to try one that is a thicker 20 weight, something around 9 cSt like Red L ine 5w-20. You might gain some mileage and get better protection against wear at the same time.