1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Taking a Dim Vue of Saturn Hybrid

Discussion in 'Other Cars' started by hb06, Oct 26, 2006.

Page 1 of 3
  1. hb06

    hb06 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    550
    15
    0
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    The Los Angeles Times offers a less than kind review of the Saturn Vue Green Line: "It would be easy - effortless, even - to accuse GM of bad faith in the Saturn Vue Green Line, a maximally minimal venture in hybrid powertrain technology that would seem less about fuel economy and more about securing coveted hybrid badges on the doors ..." ...

    http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/h...-news-highway_1
     
    #1 hb06, Oct 26, 2006
  2. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    1,748
    1
    0
    Location:
    New Brunswick, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Stupid LA times... it's a hybrid system that's roughly the same as IMA. I wonder if they bash the Civic/Accord hybrids as well.
     
    #2 Jonnycat26, Oct 26, 2006
  3. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Great read! Packed with fun one-liners, but here's my favorite:
    In the end, after spending the entire article dissing the car, he does talk about the feasability of quick implementing the "Green line" system into other GM cars and how that, at least, offers some slight modicum of improved FE. Unfortunately he doesn't address the bigger issue of emmissions, and neither does the 'green line' system.
     
    #3 efusco, Oct 26, 2006
  4. hb06

    hb06 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    550
    15
    0
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 26 2006, 08:49 AM) [snapback]338606[/snapback]</div>
    A blog from the hybridblog.org site illustrates just how deceptive the Auto Alliance is:

    "Having the Auto Alliance foist hollow hybrid vehicles along side the Prius and the Escape Hybrid is yet another attempt to dilute the hybrid field. Seems like they won’t be satisfied until any car that can power a toaster is considered part of the “hybrid revolution.â€

    "They are again attempting to confuse the consumer by lauding marginal technology improvements in a limited number of vehicles as “hybridâ€..."

    http://hybridblog.typepad.com/my_weblog/20...dsauto_all.html
     
    #4 hb06, Oct 26, 2006
  5. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    1,748
    1
    0
    Location:
    New Brunswick, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 26 2006, 11:49 AM) [snapback]338606[/snapback]</div>
    Not to quibble... but I'm qubbling with you.

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs_SUVs.shtml

    Side by side you can see the Vue puts out the exact same amount of greenhouse gases as the HiHy/Rx400 4WD, and slightly (very slightly) more than the HiHy/RX400 2WD.

    So if the Vue is bad, so are the HiHy and RX400, at least in that respect.
     
    #5 Jonnycat26, Oct 26, 2006
  6. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    3,852
    1,852
    1
    Location:
    Trumbull, CT
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius
    Model:
    LE AWD-e
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 26 2006, 12:02 PM) [snapback]338618[/snapback]</div>
    The Performance hybrids are 'bad' as noted, but they are big, heavy and fast. There's no excuse for a small, light, low performance 'hybrid' to do as poorly as the Vue.

    JeffD
     
    #6 jdenenberg, Oct 26, 2006
  7. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 26 2006, 11:02 AM) [snapback]338618[/snapback]</div>
    I'll take that quibble and raise you a ponder...
    The Hihy and RX400 can tow 3500lbs., can go 0-60 in about 7 seconds and are full size 7 seat SUVs. They get roughly the same FE in a bigger, better, more powerful vehicle....abeit at a higher cost.

    I would like to see more of the Prius-like emissions systems integrated into the HiHy and, unlike the Vue, the potential for that exists, there really is no way to do that without a more fully integrated hybrid system...Heck the Vue still uses an Otto cycle engine, not even an effort to switch to Atkinson cycle...of course the 10 sec. 0-60 would drop to 15 seconds if they did that since there's almost no electric boost to speak of at all.

    I'm glad GM's doing something, but this is technology that's at least 10 years behind Toyota and can't take them any further without dramatic changes and improvements.
     
    #7 efusco, Oct 26, 2006
  8. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    1,748
    1
    0
    Location:
    New Brunswick, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 26 2006, 01:15 PM) [snapback]338668[/snapback]</div>
    I consider 10K to be a much, much higher cost.

    I'll raise you another ponder... which is better... selling the Vue/Aura at 22K, or selling the HiHy/RX400 at 35K? Which will do more good?
     
    #8 Jonnycat26, Oct 26, 2006
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I guess I don't understand the question....
    I wouldn't consider a Vue hybrid...we want a higher end vehicle, more of a luxury car. To that end the HiHy does us much more good. If my choices were a non-hybrid Highlander or a hybrid Vue, even if the Highlander was $7k more, I'd absolutely take the Highlander.

    I'm not willing to sacrifice my personal comforts/style and performance for a hybrid label. Particularly if the FE and emissions benefits are minimal. I don't feel I sacrificed anything for my Prius. I was fine with paying $41k for our HiHy 4WD Limited w/NAV. If you force me to make a choice of a small SUV I'll take the FEH over the VUE in a heart beat.
     
    #9 efusco, Oct 26, 2006
  10. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    1,748
    1
    0
    Location:
    New Brunswick, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 26 2006, 02:03 PM) [snapback]338710[/snapback]</div>
    I guess the point I was trying to make was that not everyone can afford to drop 36K on a car, hybrid or not. Which may be, in part, the reason the HiHy tanked until Toyota gave up and loaded them up with incentives.
     
    #10 Jonnycat26, Oct 26, 2006
  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,934
    16,158
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 26 2006, 10:15 AM) [snapback]338668[/snapback]</div>
    Pss... Doc, the HiHy/RX are midsize SUVs lol.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 26 2006, 11:13 AM) [snapback]338720[/snapback]</div>
    True but the whole point of the pair was to prove that hybrids can be powerful and have better performance than their regular counterpart. Toyota totally messed up with the pricing, I agree. They were a little too optimistic after seeing Prius sales lol.
     
    #11 Tideland Prius, Oct 26, 2006
  12. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Oct 26 2006, 01:53 PM) [snapback]338756[/snapback]</div>
    Whatever, they're not compact or small SUVs like the Escape and Vue. I always have called the Explorer size SUVs (like the RX and HiHy) "full size" and the Expedition class "Large"....guess I'm not technially correct there, but it seems logical to me since the original SUVs were about the size of the current "mid-size", thus 'full size" seemed appropriate.
     
    #12 efusco, Oct 26, 2006
  13. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,934
    16,158
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    ohh ok.

    well, ya the Explorer (Blazer, Equinox, Murano, MDX, XC90, X5 etc) would be midsize and the Expedition (LC, Sequoia, Escalade ESV, Suburban etc) would be full size
     
    #13 Tideland Prius, Oct 26, 2006
  14. Rancid13

    Rancid13 Cool Chick with a Black Prius

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    2,452
    3
    0
    Location:
    Los Alamitos, Orange County, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    I enjoyed that article, particularly all the one-liners. Especially this one:

    It had me picturing a VUE splitting its hypothetical pants. :D :D
     
    #14 Rancid13, Oct 27, 2006
  15. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    2,766
    1,510
    0
    Location:
    Lewisville, TX (Dallas area)
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I'll agree that the article was harsh - just stating the facts was a body slam.

    I would not insult Honda and compare this to the IMA system.

    I was at HybridFest 2006 and the Saturn VUE had a conventional dashboard

    Do you do a weight loss program without scales? A budget without a ledger?

    Saturn drivers will have to pay $169 at www.scangage.com to get instant fuel consumption, etc - something GM could have done for maybe $50 extra. Heck GM is sooo into hype they could definately do a good hybrid dash!

    Just realized I'm sounding like the author. :D
     
    #15 Chuck., Oct 27, 2006
  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,755
    5,245
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 26 2006, 10:49 AM) [snapback]338606[/snapback]</div>
    A technology that only addresses efficiency isn't a true solution. Reduction of smog-related emissions must be delivered too. Does the 'green line' system achieve a SULEV or PZEV rating?

    Car & Driver wasn't impressed either, which was easy to tell with this subtitle: "Cheap, and so is the price."

    But it's GM's own slogan that really makes me wonder: "less hybrid for less money". How exactly are people going to acknowledge that? It certainly isn't in our American-Market mentality to accept something that isn't the best.

    Of course, like I've been saying all along, making a difference comes from actual real-world numbers, that's both MPG and production. Too low of either won't help.
     
    #16 john1701a, Oct 27, 2006
  17. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    So it looks like what they've done is have an oversized belt-driven starter motor that can give the engine an added push when called for. How long before that breaks down, on average? The mechanics of America can all go out and buy bigger boats on their likely increased income if people actually buy this vehicle.
     
    #17 daniel, Oct 29, 2006
  18. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    1,748
    1
    0
    Location:
    New Brunswick, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Oct 29 2006, 07:04 PM) [snapback]340389[/snapback]</div>
    That's not quite what it is, but it's about all I'd expect people here to think.

    Tell you what tho, when I own my Aura hybrid, I'm willing to bet it won't go belly up twice in the first 500 miles, much like my Prius did. :)
     
    #18 Jonnycat26, Oct 29, 2006
  19. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 29 2006, 05:54 PM) [snapback]340402[/snapback]</div>
    Wow, who peed in your Wheaties!
    I realize that we're all a bunch of uneducated adle-minded technically ignorant fools here, but why not proved some education and information to back up your piss poor attitude. And you've got how many problem free miles since that first 500 on your Prius?
     
    #19 efusco, Oct 29, 2006
  20. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,755
    5,245
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 29 2006, 05:54 PM) [snapback]340402[/snapback]</div>
    It was better when you talked down to just me. Oh well. You obviously still don't want to share what you know. Simply giving us a brain dump could easily prevent misconceptions. Not doing that means having to put up with those of us trying to figure out how it works.

    .
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 29 2006, 05:54 PM) [snapback]340402[/snapback]</div>
    What about the 59,000 trouble-free miles that followed? Your victim mentality won't change the fact that the recall event has long since proven itself a complete non-issue at this point... no matter how many times you tell your story.
     
    #20 john1701a, Oct 29, 2006
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 3