Tesla Killer Rant ... worth it!

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by bwilson4web, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Just short of 15 minutes, well worth the time:


    Bob Wilson
     
  2. tpenny67

    tpenny67 Active Member

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    Wow, he didn't have nice things to say about your i3 :)

    As our resident luddite, I really don't want a "smart phone on wheels", I'd really rather have an old fashioned car with an electric drivetrain. It bugs me when my phone updates an app unexpectedly and I have to re-learn how to do the same thing I did yesterday because the interface changed. It would drive me out of my skull if my car did that.

    He did make a great point about the new BEVs comparing poorly on range and performance to a used several year old Tesla.
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Fair enough, I didn't have nice things to say about the Model 3 in May 2016 when I bought the 2014 BMW-i3 REx.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  4. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I'll fight you for that title- is pistols at dawn too modern though?

    Jokes aside, I agree 100% with your statement. I feel like most of the electric cars coming out are borrowing and extending the very worst of the schmecky-techy features from gas cars. To be fair I've said the same thing about the Prius- I was thrilled to discover the c still uses a floormount gate shifter and a real twist key, for example.

    I'm starting to think my best bet at switching to an electric car is going to be a homebuilt conversion.
     
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  5. tpenny67

    tpenny67 Active Member

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    Perhaps swords would better suit us :)
     
  6. ssdesigner

    ssdesigner Active Member

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    It's cheaper for these companies to pay for smear campaigns, and that's their logic at this point.

    Lazy and unacceptable. I think Toyota is going to suffer for sitting on their hands as long as they have. And rightfully so. Shame on them, and shame on the rest of big auto.
     
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  7. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    To be fair, I was walking by a BMW dealership in Boston the other day and I saw a 5 series car that looked like a real 5 series (gorgeous!) plugged in. I think they call it i5 with EX drive or some such. But the point is that they are getting the message that an electric vehicle does not need to be ugly or weird looking. Amen!
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    oh yes ! way too modern ... same high tech problem with swords .... better go with good ol' reliable, neanderthal clubs.
    80yr tech? too modern ! it might fail. I'd stick w/crank start if i were you

    .
     
  9. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Yeah but I thought modern (gas) BMWs already had a pretty thick crust of technology-for-the-sake-of-technology? I'm pretty sure you need a laptop and an interface cable to use the turn signals. ;)
     
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  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    a lot of people by the time they hit their mid-fifties are asking their 8yr old grandkids how to do stuff on their computers. Similarly, kids learn second and third languages twice as fast as older Folk.
    It doesn't mean you can't, it just means we're getting a little more stodgy. Think of the poor Formula 1 driver nowadays who has to stare at a steering wheel like this;
    [​IMG]
    .
     
  11. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    It's not about kids learning faster, it's about user interface design. Just like industrial design, engineering design and all sorts of other kinds of designs, there is good stuff and there is garbage. User interface on cars is undergoing a garbage stage right now. I am not against technology and I love my key-less Prius, but I do hate information overload and cognitive overload in car interfaces. When cars come without operating controls (steering wheel, pedals, etc.), then sure, hit me with all the infotainment, but until then, cars need to remain simple and reliable to operate. It's a mission critical application that gets treated like a three ring circus by so many car manufacturers! I hope that too shall pass.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    don't agree that jaguar is a legit competitor. we'll see.
     
  13. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    I really like my Model 3 after almost 2 months.
    But the UI can be improved.
    Some improvements that would just make it quicker to learn...I don't like having to "discover" stuff like on a phone.
    Other things are just silly...like the clock and temperature display. They are on the right side of the display in a small font. And overlaid on top of the map display, so sometime there is a line (a street) just behind them. I'm sure that, as designed, it looked very cool to a 25 or 30 year old who designed it sitting at a PC screen.

    Mike
     
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  14. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    User interface design for cars has been perfected a long time ago, but now with all the gadgetry that comes with the car and the new generation of "designers" weaned on smart phones and video games things are going through a new stage and I am sure they will shake out as they mature. I think Tesla is probably one of the best in the field (guessing, I have never driven one), but they are still guilty of loosing sight of cognitive overload during driving. Menu driven interface must be super-tuned and sharp in order to be as effective as knob and lever physical interface. This still escapes many of the manufacturers. Your example of clock is great. Fortunately, in Tesla's case it can all be changed after the sale with an update. But tweaking the appearance of an UI of a car where it is the only way to control things again introduces unnecessary cognitive load on the user. Now they'll need to re-learn where everything is. Kind of like when Google changes the gmail interface and you spend a few days cursing them because now your everyday tasks are irritatingly taking longer than what you have already gotten used to. It's fine on a new dress, but terrible on an appliance that needs to get out of your way in its service to you.

    At least with knobs and levers you get to decide if you like the setup and if you do, you buy the car and get used to it and are good for the life of the car and also can drive another copy of this car like your own. There is great value to that that is being discounted in favor of glitz with the kids these days...
     
  15. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    [​IMG]

    Bravo! Excellent post. I think you covered a lot of important points well with your last paragraph.

    I guess I'm not a real luddite after all. I like technology, I just wish a lot more care went into its distribution and application.
     
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  16. ssdesigner

    ssdesigner Active Member

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    I'll take digital with the hope of update all day, every day. If I want a car, say a Prius, and the buttons and knobs etc suck, well....then what? For me, I'm not moving on to another car because the clock is 3" too far to the left, I'm buying it because I want the Prius and then I'm living with buttons I don't particularly care for....for the life of the car. At least here we can hope for the ability to customize things down the road.
     
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  17. tpenny67

    tpenny67 Active Member

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    On my Fords that have an AUX input, there is a dedicated AUX button that's always in the same place. I can find that button by feel (sort of, Ford has pretty bad button designs) and with one push the stereo plays from my MP3 player. My MP3 player, being an old and cheap design, actually has physical buttons so I can also turn it on and press play by feel.

    In the Prius, to select the AUX input requires three presses: First hit the physical AUDIO button to bring up the audio screen. The first screen is useless as you have to scroll through options and thus AUX isn't at a fixed place on the screen. However, on the bottom right corner of the screen is an "all" button, and pressing that presents all 6 options in a fixed location, and AUX is always in the bottom right. So when I want AUX, I click the physical AUDIO button, then do two presses in the bottom right of the screen. I only need to look away from the road long enough to aim my finger, I don't need to read and comprehend what's on the screen because I know it's location.

    The Prius interface may not be ideal, but it is consistent and predictable.
     
  18. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    That is, if the BMW came with the optional turn signals. Many BMW owners, in this area, didn't go for the option.
     
  19. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    You see, in my Gen 2 Prius there IS an AUX button on the dash and there is a way to switch to AUX from the steering wheel without looking away from the road. I really appreciate it too! But as part of "Progress" they have moved it several layers into the menu on your car (Gen 3?). This is exactly the opposite of the right direction the UI is moving in cars. The infatuation with touch screen makes the UI's cumbersome. Touch screens are a really poor choice for a car interface. In my Gen 2 there is more than enough of touch screen, but most things I need to do while driving I can accomplish by physical buttons (either on the steering wheel or on the dash). However certain things that require finding and aiming at the touch screen buttons irritate me to no end. There is no way in hell I am going accomplish these tasks without taking my attention off the road.
     
  20. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    I think this thread title needs to be changed to: "Luddites Unite" or "Change? No Thanks!" or "How many different ways can we complain about touchscreens?"
     
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