Tesla Killer Rant ... worth it!

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by bwilson4web, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Absolutely!
    The UI of a car, or any vehicle, incorporates all of the controls and ability to read them.
    For example, if a car had what you imagine to be the perfect controls, but the windshield was 100% opaque the UI would suck, as a whole, even though individual controls were wonderful.
    What I was referring to is that I don't need to remove my hands from the steering wheel to change the volume. I know many other cars also put volume on the steering wheel, but some don't.
    IMO, the best UI I have ever experienced in a car was that of the Model S.
    The Model 3 has the potential to surpass it, but isn't there yet.
     
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    i don't even know how to manually turn on my better ½'s windshield wipers - as so many of those things on her X are automatic. Same with fiddling around on radio controls. Touch a thumb button on the steering wheel & just say what you want to listen to. Or say where you wana go ... or say colder or warmer.
    Not so, w/ MY daily driver ... & the last flat i had in IT was while manually reaching to turn on AC. I look back at the road & BAM, car to the left of me had just kicked a metal chunk in front of my car. Far from home - late at night & bye-bye right front tire . Just sayin' ... modern tech has at LEAST as many advantages as it has drawbacks.
    .
     
  3. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    I may have been a bit heavy-handed in calling a touchscreen interface horrible for most devices, so let me refine my point here. A touch screen interface is a compromise we are willing to accept to make certain things happen. In a smart phone we have that gorgeous large screen that can easily double as a fairly decent movie watching platform, so it makes sense that it has no hardware buttons. We all agree and most of us use smart phones every day and pay good money to do so. But let's focus on the compromise part for a second. Let's compare user experience of placing a phone call to a number not stored in the phone book in a smart phone and a 30 year old Ma-Bell relic.

    Smart phone experience:
    1. unlock the phone
    2. launch the phone app
    3. pull up a dial pad (my phone app comes up with dial pad hidden)
    4. dial the number
    5. press "send" (or "call")

    circa 1980's Ma-bell relic experience of placing the same call
    1. pick up the receiver
    2. dial
    This is an extreme example, but I get irritated by it almost every day when trying to initiate a call. Sure, I use speed dial and things are a bit simpler if I am calling a number in my phone book, but every now and again I am trying to contact someone on Craigslist and the compromise becomes very clear. Smart phone is not that great at being a phone. It's very smart, but not a great phone. This is my point. It is largely because of this touchscreen interface that user experience is sacrificed. Even the old dumb cell phones were better at being a phone than the touch screen counterparts.

    This is why some things should not be controlled by touch screen in the car. It is simply too cumbersome. Would you object if the next Tesla you bought had no steering wheel and instead had a big screen in place of it with a picture of steering wheel you operate with your fingers? That would not suit me, but I am sure my kids, who grew up playing Mario Cart video game would probably feel at home. It would still be inferior to an actual steering wheel, even though a child could figure out how to operate it.

    In general, I am not against the touch screen interface, I am against it for certain applications. Look how much tech is being thrown to replace a simple knob and still failing to properly replicate it. Touch screen, voice commands, software, etc. All to replace a volume knob on the radio. It's pretty crazy. And voice commands are not always appropriate. Sometimes you need to perform a task in silence (maybe your passenger is asleep). Also, voice commands do not work 100% of the time and certain tasks need 100% reliability.

    And sometimes things are just silly. Like the glove box opener hidden under a few layers of menus. If you give me a glove box, let me have easy and quick access to it. It's not a safe.

    I understand that M3 is a wonderful car and I do not wish to tarnish its value, but I think in this case Tesla has simply gone too far in streamlining the interface. Time will tell how the general public will react and accept it. I hope in the future Tesla comes back a bit and brings some basic controls back to physical realm. They are learning and pushing the envelope and I am totally okay with it and am very happy that there are adopters who are willing to pay the money and keep the dream alive. I wish Tesla the best and I know electric cars are the future. The design is a separate issue and I take it equally with other brands of cars. In fact others are more guilty than Tesla of obscuring UI in the car. And usually touch screen is to blame. This is why I am so irritated with the touch screen. People take it too far and basically misuse its functionality.
     
  4. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    In the late '50s and early '60s, I went across town ito school in all weather n a '30 Model A 2 door sedan. Primitive.

    But when some kids decided that removing a stop sign at the bottom of a hill was a cool prank and we hit at about 25 MPH a '55 Ford wagon turning in front of us, the arched fender of the A had a 8' dent. The side of the wagon was raked front to back. Virtue in simplicity and thick steel. Cop came, looked at cars and missing sign, asked us to go back up hill and come back down and show him the lever actuated brakes worked, no ticket.
     
  5. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Too bad they're trusting computers to be the locks. They're going to have to use something much weirder to keep enthusiasts, modders and hackers out.

    I've been following that fight for a while. Thanks for the link.
     
  6. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    A key. ;)
     
  7. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    That was a great post overall, but I particularly liked the sentiment of this bit. I also don't wish Tesla any ill. I'd like to see them become the inspiration for some great mass market electric cars. They're getting some of it exactly right, as far as I'm concerned.

    Now I'm eager/impatient to see the VW Beetle of the BEV world. I think Volkswagen's greatest contribution to the automotive world was the successful divorce of quality from luxury, which they hit around 1967. They proved that they could make an outstanding car without an ounce of fat on it, and pocket a profit doing so.
     
    tpenny67 and VFerdman like this.
  8. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    A very basic non-luxury BEV should cost a fraction of an equivalent ICE car. No exhaust (that means much less EPA testing, if any), no transmission, no engine, plus the battery and motor. Sounds like a net win in the cost department to me, but I am not a car manufacturer bean counter.

    I personally can't wait to have a BEV.
     
  9. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    You missed a couple steps.

    Ma Bell phone
    1) Stand up from where ever you were.
    2) Take out wallet and pay for the movie, items, etc if appropriate
    3) Accept change (if cash) or sign credit card receipt
    4) Leave building and find transportation to home.
    4a) If personal car, remove keys to unlock, place in ignition, operated vehicle as intended and drive home (fill up with gas if necessary).
    5) Complete journey home, either walking from bus stop or opening garage, parking and closing garage.
    6) Put away car keys, take out house keys and unlock door.
    7) Put away any shopping items, briefcase, coat, hat, etc
    8) Locate number
    9) Pick up receiver
    10) Dial

    I found less distraction from the UI in my Model S than I did in my Gen 2 Prius.
    A well designed UI using a touchscreen CAN be far superior to a poorly designed UI utilizing only buttons and switches.
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Emission testing won't be needed, but the fuel efficiency test will be needed, and these are the same test. Engine, transmission, and emission controls might equal motor, controller/inverter, charger, and battery in cost, but I suspect the battery will push the BEV side up higher at this point. Then a motor requires a lot of copper, which goes for more than the steel or aluminum in an engine.

    Then drive train is just part of a car's cost. There is still the suspension, which needs to be stronger for a BEV's higher weight. Then body, which likely uses more lighter weight materials that could increase cost in BEV. Both still need to meet the same safety requirements, and have the same periphery stuff that people want on their cars.

    I see purchase price of a BEV being higher for some time, but the total ownership cost should match a traditional ICE car soon.
     
  11. tpenny67

    tpenny67 Active Member

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    Please don't joke about such things, it will give Tesla (and others) ideas! I've been wondering when cars become 99.9% self driving, how do you handle that last 0.1%? For example, say you take your autonomous vehicle to some event and they're using an empty field for parking. Will the car be programmed to handle that? Or will it pop up a virtual steering wheel for you?
     
  12. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    I agree 100% with that statement. When I talk about a good non-touch screen car UI, I mean something like this:

    [​IMG]
     
  13. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    It will drop you off at the event entrance then drive around aimlessly until you are ready to be picked up

    Mike
     
  14. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    ^ Yes I've always said the real test will be what it does when faced with a dismounted trucker standing in the road waving and screaming "Stop! Bridge out ahead!!" but the improvised parking lot is hopefully a much more common example. I used one today.
     
  15. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    I agree that some things are more difficult.
    But, the common case is still faster with a smart phone...since, as a guess, 90 - 99% of most people's phone calls are to numbers in their recent call history or contacts. Remember looking up phone numbers in the phone book? Or calling "information" and asking for a number for John Smith in SomeTown? And writing it down, then dialing it. Even though he'd just called you the previous day. You finally dial and no one answers...or you get a busy signal. You redial. Still busy, redial again over and over. Yes, the good old days were much better.

    You are only remembering the easy case for the old phone.

    Mike
     
    #55 3PriusMike, Sep 21, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
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  16. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    I fully acknowledge the advantages of the modern devices over the antique ones. I am just pointing out that touch screen is not always appropriate. Car is a mission critical application and replacing all controls with a touch screen is not a great idea to me. I still love the fact that M3 exists, I think it's an absolutely beautiful car (Toyota, take note!) and if I drove one I may very well change my mind about the way they implemented their UI. But from what I read and see, I form an opinion that it's gone too far into touch screen territory.
     
  17. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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  18. ssdesigner

    ssdesigner Active Member

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    This is not about the software, so you should be adding this to your post if you did in fact read the article.
     
  19. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Nor me.
    I don't see any car, ever replacing all input with the touchscreen.
    I view the interface of the Volvo above as a disaster waiting to happen. However, I am not familiar with the controls, but talk about distracting??
    I like a simple, straight forward interface. A clean, yet functional UI. The Model S was close. The 3 isn't quite as close, but has the potential to surpass the S in fairly short order.
     
  20. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Can you do many things through voice command yet on the 3?
     
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