Test drive event discussion thread

cwerdna · Oct 10, 2011

Want to discuss random thoughts and observations from test drive events sponsored by automakers? This would be a good place...

In the past, when I'd been to a bunch of Toyota hybrid roadshows in WA state, the Toyota test drives offered at the Seattle auto show and most recently the Toyota test drives offered at Green Drive Expo in Richmond, CA, most of the staffers were the same folks. Yes, the folks I saw in WA were at GDE.

Some of them recognize me and have gotten to know me after a few of the events. They apparently work for some agency/3rd party company and not directly for Toyota. They handle Toyota test drive events on the West Coast.

Today, I went to Cadillac Culinary Challenge Test Drive at Santana Row in San Jose and I test drove all the vehicles there: CTS sedan and coupe, SRX, Escalade Hybrid, BMW X5, Mercedes E350 sedan and coupe and Lexus RX. I spoke to numerous ride along staffers and learned that they all came from different parts of the US, such as LA, Texas, north of NYC, and so on. Apparently they were all contracted by the same person.

Apparently, the event's almost over w/remaining events in So Cal, Georgia and Florida.

One of the women says she works at Scion events at other times of the year. I mentioned to her my familiarity w/the Toyota staffers (above) and how some folks in other parts of the country (East Coast?) were disappointed by the hybrid knowledge level of those staffing Toyota events. She basically said that the test drive folks at the Seattle auto show wouldn't be the ones working the show floor. She was correct about that. She said that "product specialists" on auto show floors have to know more and that people who know more are thus paid more.

To her, those staffing test drive events, if they aren't one of those "paid more" folks... their lack of product knowledge isn't too surprising. She hypothesized that Toyota only had so much budget to hire whoever they got vs. the "paid more" folks.

About the cars: I'm not a BMW fan and I found the X5 has VERY touchy brakes. I was warned about it by the ride along go and it was tough to get used to them. I was guessing that maybe there was something wrong w/the car but a few Google searches turns up the same complaint (in the automotive press). I've test driven a wide range of BMWs before but don't remember encountering anything like this before.

I'd heard complaints about the X5's goofy turn signal lever and found them legit. The way it works is very annoying and unlike ANY car I've driven, Japanese, Korean or American. The gearshift lever is also goofy (seen complaints about this too).

I can't imagine how many sales BMW has lost on the X5 when cross shopping w/other cars, unless one is a BMW fanboy. If were in the market for that class of vehicle, besides in being a BMW (w/high maintenance costs and hit/miss reliability, some very poor), the above reasons would be even more reasons to scratch it off my list.

I thought it was odd to bring the MB E-classes to have up against the CTS. I'd figure a BMW 3-series or MB C-Class would be more appropriate.

On the Mercedes, they put their cruise control adjustment lever in a weird place. They put it on the left side of the steering wheel, angled up and above the turn signal lever. It's exactly where I'd expect to a turn signal lever on Toyotas, so I kept pushing on that. It was odd that Mercedes saw it fit to put a huge analog clock on the left side of the dash. It reminds me of cars from the 70s and 80s. IMHO, analog clocks in cars today are ok, but a huge one in the dash? That's odd.

Back to product knowledge, when I was in the Lexus RX, the woman in the car for some reason brought up (premium) fuel "requirements" for all their cars and competitors too. I mentioned the SRX recall (http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...-fuel-grenaded-cadillac-srx-gms-response.html) but I didn't remember all the details. She was unaware of it. It was somewhat fitting to bring it up given what she brought up and given that an SRX was available for test drives.

In the end, I was able to lookup some articles of it on my iPhone 4 and showed them to her.

Tideland Prius · Oct 10, 2011

2011 Hyundai Test Drive Event

My review of the Hyundai Canada Test Drive Event last month

Hyundai has come a long way from building basic cars with a low price and shoddy build quality. The Excel and Pony are a thing of the past and now Hyundai has stepped up and is offering a host of stylish new models that are ready to challenge your perception of what a Hyundai should be. The first in its lineup of new vehicles are the aptly named Genesis sedan and Genesis coupÃ© launched in 2010.

Now, the time has come to revamp Hyundai’s more affordable alternatives – the 2012 Accent, 2011 Elantra and 2011 Sonata Hybrid and all-new for 2012, the Veloster. Hyundai Canada hosted the One Ride Event to showcase these vehicles so let's check them out!

2011 Sonata Hybrid Premium
First up, the Sonata Hybrid. There’s a lot riding on Hyundai’s first foray into the hybrid market. Toyota, Honda and Ford have had a good number of years under their belt and are on the 3rd, 4th or even 5th iteration of their hybrid system. Hyundai’s approach was to make the Sonata hybrid drive like a normal Sonata. As such, it has equipped the Sonata Hybrid with a 6-speed automatic transmission instead of the more commonly used Continuously Variable Transmission or CVT. It has also decided to one-up its competitors by installing a Lithium-Polymer battery from LG instead of a NiMH or Li-Ion. The advantage, Hyundai claims, is a battery that is more compact and weighs less than a traditional NiMH. The results speak for themselves as the Sonata Hybrid weighs in at only 1,580kg and has a boot size of 304 litres (10.7 cu. ft.), the lightest midsize hybrid sedan by a whopping 70kg. Even the Premium model, which adds a few heavy items such as a panoramic glass moonroof and 17” alloys checks in at 1,641kg, 9 kg lighter than the Camry Hybrid. However, the Fusion Hybrid still edges out in cargo space with 331 litres (11.7 cu. ft.). Hyundai’s BlueDrive, as it calls its hybrid system, mates a 2.4 litre 4 cylinder engine running on the Atkinson cycle with variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust that puts out 166hp @ 6,000rpm and 154lb-ft of torque at 4,500 with the aforementioned lithium-polymer battery. Combined, the net hybrid system puts out 206hp and an estimated 195lb-ft of torque. The important numbers are as such: 5.5L/100km in the city and 4.6L/100km on the highway which is pretty impressive for a midsize car.

Hyundai Canada provided a short closed circuit course with long sweeping corners, a decreasing radius corner, a slalom and a brake/acceleration test to allow the drivers to test various aspects of vehicle handling and performance. Off the line, the Sonata Hybrid displayed a slight lag between the driver’s request and the response of the engine when the engine is off at rest. It’s hard to say if the delay is caused by the drive-by-wire programming or if the engine is slow to fire up. The electric is quite torquey as tip in EV mode is quite good. Under full acceleration, the Sonata does not display any of the drone associated with hybrids equipped with a CVT and as a result is reasonably quiet. Steering is light at parking lot speeds with decent heft as speeds increase. However, I noted that it had the strong tendency to return to centre. Brakes were good even though the run up to the braking area was short so I didn’t have the opportunity to brake at my usual test speed of 60km/h.

We had the Sonata Hybrid Premium which meant a stylish 17” alloys, leather interior, a panoramic moonroof, navigation w/ backup camera, a 7-speaker Infinity audio system, heated rear seats, auto-dimming mirror w/ Homelink & compass and a proximity entry/start system were included for a reasonable $4,500 over the base price of $29,999.

The 17” alloys really complement the exterior and are a huge upgrade over the standard 16” alloy design. Hyundai added a few touches to differentiate the Sonata Hybrid from its siblings. For starters, the front bumper and grille design have been designed for aerodynamics. They feature are a large grille with chrome surround and a black plastic trim across the centre dividing the area, mimicking the design found on Audis. The corners of each car have been sharpened to minimise air turbulence, a trick taken out of Toyota’s book. The headlights and taillights also feature hybrid-only features. Up front, a cool LED strip announce your arrival while at the rear, the LED taillight design mimics an atom molecule when illuminated.

The seats and steering wheel were well positioned and a comfortable driving position was easily achieved. However, I felt that I had to be a little closer to the steering wheel than I’d like which means my knees were close to the steering wheel column. The panoramic roof does eat into headroom and the driver’s seat doesn’t lower enough so those over six feet may find headroom lacking in the Premium model but it does lend a hand in making the interior feel light and airy, especially in the rear seats. Speaking of those, they are plush and comfortable though a tad too low for my tastes. The heated rear seats will be appreciated by your passengers on those frosty mornings. The plastics used on the door panel felt a little cheap in comparison to the materials used on the dashboard and I felt were a little plain Jane. A little more silver trim would help spice up the panels.

Overall I was impressed with the Sonata Hybrid. It’s a fantastic first attempt at hybridization for Hyundai. Yes it’s a little rough around the edges but compared to the first hybrids we had 10 years ago, it’s much improved. It’s a solid, well built vehicle wrapped in a stylish package and well priced at loonie under $30,000. It’s rated as a SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emissions) which means it lacks the ability to eliminate evaporative emissions compared to the other hybrids which achieve the AT-PZEV (Advanced Technology Partial Zero Emissions) rating. While reliability and durability of the hybrid system is unknown, Hyundai offers a generous 8 year and 160,000km warranty on the battery.

2012 Veloster w/ Tech Pack
Out of the green and into the red. The Veloster is Hyundai’s new hip, cool sports car. Is it a coupe? A hatchback? A shooting brake? Well, it’s a bit of everything. You see, the Veloster has 3 doors plus a hatch. The 3rd door is on the passenger side to ease access to the rear of the cabin. Unlike 3rd doors of other cars like the Saturn ION or MINI Clubman, it’s a proper door and not a half door that can only be opened after the front door is opened. While a great concept, it’s clear that the designers still ensured that form took precedence over function. The rear door handle is hidden in the C-pillar to maintain the classic coupe look. As such, the lower part of the door rises sharply to the roof. Up top, the roof also drops towards the hatch which means you have to watch your head and behind as you awkwardly slide in. I learned it the hard way. However, once you’re inside, it’s a very comfortable place to be. There’s plenty of headroom, even though you’re under the rear glass and there’s good legroom and hip room. Up front, you’re treated to a nice set of pair of well-bolstered seats and a stylish steering wheel.

Ours was the top model with a moonroof, leather and a proximity entry system. The entire centre stack is definitely one of the more stylish interpretations of Hyundai’s dashboard thus far. The entire centre stack is shaped like a V with the vents on the outside and a 7” navigation screen in the middle. At the bottom sits the engine start button. It almost looks like a winged emblem of some sort, or maybe it just took its inspiration from its bigger brother, the Equus and its logo. There’s a sporty set of aluminium pedals and a padded kneepad on either side of the centre console. The interior door handle is an interesting floating design that I haven’t seen before..

Powering the Veloster is a 1.6 litre direct injected 4 cylinder engine putting out 138hp. It may seem weak for such a stylish vehicle but power didn’t feel lacking. It is rumored that a more powerful version, possibly turbocharged, is in the pipelines. Our version had a 6-speed manual that had an easy clutch uptake and smooth shifting gate with short throws. Steering is direct with short gear ratios and was ultimately more fun around the course. Suspension was reasonably stiff from what I can tell and the 5-spoke 18” alloys on sticky rubber provided plenty of grip. Braking was firm and swift but again from a slow speed, it’s hard to tell between the vehicles.

Visibility is great especially with the way that Hyundai designed the rear hatchback. It’s a split window type like you’d find on a C230 coupe or a CRX but this time, Hyundai has put the spoiler way up at the top thus the lower rear glass is tall enough that visibility is not obstructed at all. A rear wiper is included.

Cargo space is surprisingly roomy with a nice, deep storage area but liftover height is tall and the opening is a tad on the small side. However, this is a small price to pay for a very unique rear end design. This could’ve very well been a design disaster with odd curves and angles and what looks like a big fat rump. Hyundai has managed to pull it off, however. The rear fenders were pulled out, giving an impression of a widebody kit and an aggressive, well planted vehicle. They’ve also blacked out the lower bumper trim which is contrasted nicely with a pair of integrated centre-aligned chrome exhausts. Very slick.

And how much does it cost for all of this? $18,999. Yes, and that’s in Canadian dollars. Amazing value. Standard equipment include 17” alloys, Bluetooth handsfree, LED parking lights, foglights, backup camera, 7” touchscreen display, stability control, and 6 airbags. The Tech Pack adds 18” alloys with body colour inserts, panoramic moonroof, navigation, 450-watt Dimension audio system, leather-wrapped steering wheel and shift knob, aluminium pedals, automatic headlights and upgraded seat upholstery. A 6-speed dual clutch gearbox is $1,400 but I’d save the money and stick with the manual.

The Veloster will be in showrooms in the middle of September

2012 Accent GLS 5-door
The Accent is the latest vehicle to receive Hyundai’s “Fluidic Sculpture” treatment and will continue as a sedan and hatchback for 2012. Gone is the frumpy looking front end and in its place a stylish, European-inspired design that takes cues from its bigger brother, the Sonata and in hatchback form, some cues from the BMW 1 series hatchback that we do not get on this side of the pond.

Courtesy of Hyundai CanadaIt has grown larger that it’s labelled as a compact instead of a subcompact by the EPA. Inside, there’s plenty of space for four passengers, five in a pinch. The materials are a step up from the previous Accent. There’s still hard plastic but the panels gaps appear tight and consistent and solidly put together. The door pockets are very large and incorporate a bottle holder. There’s the familiar shield design for the radio in the centre, taken from the Elantra. A stylized crease runs across the dash on the passenger side to break up the large expanse of plastic. The seats are comfortable and the steering wheel tilts but does not telescope.

Under the hood is a new 1.6 litre all-aluminium direct injection, 4 cylinder engine with dual continuously variable valve timing. It puts out 138hp @ 6,300rpm and 123 lb-ft @ 4,850. Two six-speed transmissions are offered – a manual and an automatic with a gated shifter, manual mode and an Active ECO function. Both are a rare commodity in this class so kudos to Hyundai for offering 6 speeds. Fuel economy is pegged at 6.7L/100km in the city and 4.9L/100km on the highway for the manual and 7.0/4.8 L/100km for the automatic. These numbers are similar to the Elantra so if you’re looking at an Accent, it’s definitely not for fuel economy but more likely for its smaller size and lower price point.

At $13,599 for the Accent L with the manual, it’s no longer the bargain basement vehicle it used to be. Now that Nissan has decided to take that role with its Versa sedan, Hyundai has moved the Accent up. While last year’s model only came with two front airbags, the new Accent caught up and adds front side airbags and side curtain airbags. Other standard safety items include traction control and stability control as well as a Vehicle Stability Management (VSM) system that manages stability under braking. 4-wheel disc brakes (another class leading feature), ABS and Brake Assist round out the active safety list. Active front headrests that bring the headrest forward in an event of a rear collision to minimise whiplash injury is also standard. Other class leading features include front variable intermittent wipers and a windshield shade band.

Courtesy of Hyundai CanadaOut on the road, the Accent performs well for a small car. The steering has good weight to it and the transmission shifts smoothly. However, one gripe with the transmission is that it is awfully slow to rev the engine. Flooring it from a standing start sees the car slowly take its time to roll forward and the transmission to give power to the wheels. It almost feels as if I’m accelerating gingerly even though my foot is to the floor. The manual mode offers no relief since it’s not the shift change that’s slow but the power delivery. I didn’t check to see if the Active ECO feature was engaged but given the lethargic acceleration, I’m going to guess that it is. It’s surprising that Hyundai didn’t plan to let the car temporarily go out of that mode if the situation arises such that the driver needs to get out of the way in a hurry. It can be a safety hazard. I know the engine is capable as it’s the same one found in the Veloster that I tried earlier. Braking is spongy and while there is a solid feel at the bottom of the pedal travel, the brake booster gives up a tad early, releasing pressure and letting the brake pedal travel further before I came to a stop. It certainly surprised me. I didn’t encounter this effect on the other Hyundai products available that day. It may have class-leading 4-wheel disc brakes but it would be nice if they provided confident stops.

The Accent hatchback starts at $13,599 with the automatic costing $1,200 more. USB and iPod connectivity is standard along with a single optical disc player. The GL is expected to be the volume seller as it adds features such as air conditioning, cruise control, power windows, remote keyless entry, heated side mirrors, driver’s seat height adjustment, 60/40 split folding rear seats, steering wheel mounted audio controls and two more speakers. It costs $15,399 for the manual. The GLS bumps the price to $17,199 and tops it off with foglights, mirror-mounted turn signals, 16” alloys, leather-wrapped steering wheel, power moonroof, XM satellite radio, Bluetooth handsfree and heated front seats.

2011 Elantra Limited
Finally, we come to the Elantra. A stylish (haven’t we heard this word already?) compact sedan that’s going head-to-head with the likes of the Corolla, Focus, Civic and Mazda3. It definitely has the Civic and Corolla beat on looks. While fuel economy and price are good numbers, Hyundai thinks that buyers looking at the compact sedan market deserve a little more. Besides, it’s no longer people who can’t afford larger cars that are buying compacts nowadays. There are a lot of those who are downsizing and want big car features in their small cars. There are also those who just do not need a larger vehicle and a compact car provides the best combination of price, size and features.

Our Limited version costs $22,699 and only comes with a 6-speed automatic. The only option would be to move up to the Limited with navigation model. This Limited trim is as loaded as it gets. Leather trimmed interior, power moonroof, 17” alloys, heated front and rear seats, automatic climate control, automatic headlights, automatic dimming mirror w/ Homelink and Bluetooth handsfree.

Inside, the leather seats are quite supportive and very well shaped. The seat bottom is long enough to provide support for my thighs. The issue with offering leather seating in an economy car is that the manufacturer would always source the lowest cost leather which feels cheap and almost makes the standard fabric a much better alternative. However, this is not the case with the Elantra as the leather feels pretty nice. There’s plenty of silver and high gloss black trim and a unique shield design for the climate control in the centre console. The centre vents are located on both side and pinch in. The visual side effect, unfortunately, is that it makes the interior of the car feel narrower than it really is. The radio is mounted high up on the dash and is easy to read during the day.
The car accelerates well and especially after the Accent’s performance, feels quite lively. The engine is willing to rev and the 17” wheels provide good grip. The steering ratio is ok but it could be a tad sharper. Steering weight is a tad on the light side but makes for good low speed navigation. Braking performance on 4-wheel discs with ABS with Electronic Brakeforce Distribution was non dramatic.

Power comes from a 1.8 litre 4 cylinder engine with dual continuous variable valve timing. It outputs 148hp @ 6,500rpm and 131 lb-ft @ 4,700rpm. Fuel economy for the manual is rated at 6.8L/100km in the city and 4.9L/100km on the highway. The automatic loses 0.1L/100km in the city but has identical highway rating. This beats the Corolla’s rating of 7.0/5.6 L/100km and the Civic’s number of 7.2/5.0L/100km, both with the automatic transmission. I suspect that the 6th and maybe even 5th gear on the Elantra help achieve the low highway number. It also highlights the shortcoming of only have four gears in the Corolla and five in the Civic.

The Elantra may no longer be the cheapest option in its class with a starting price of $15,849 or $859 more than the Civic but the different shrinks at the top end with the Limited w/ Navigation coming within $300 of the top-of-the-line Civic EX-L. It’ll come down to what specific equipment you prefer as both vehicles are similarly equipped and whether you prefer a Honda or a Hyundai.

With the onslaught of strong contenders from Hyundai, Ford and Mazda, there are a lot of choices out there. They all offer great value, fuel economy and have plenty of upscale features but with Hyundai rapidly gaining consumer confidence and improving reliability, the Korean might just be the new Japanese for this decade.
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a_gray_prius · Oct 10, 2011

I test drove a Suzuki Kizashi and a Nissan Leaf recently. Unfortunately, I didn't get either past 40mph so it's kind of hard to make real judgements.

The Kizashi was surprisingly comfortable, and was super easy to shift (I drove a manual, it was literally like zero effort, compared to the modified cars I often get to drive). First impression: zero effort daily driver - perfect if you don't actually enjoy the feeling of driving. Doors felt solid, well built. Steering was very light. It was super quiet and very smooth, but then most cars are when they are new. The rep that rode with us was from Seattle, owned a Prius .

I took my parents to the Nissan drive electric event in Chicago. The first impression I had of the Nissan leaf was "roomy" for such a small car. Also very smooth, quiet. Turning circle was super tight. Let me make something clear: my parents want to purchase an electric car, we really do like the idea. However: acceleration in eco mode made me want to cry. The rep that rode with us was like high school age - the kid knew like nothing about the car.

cwerdna · Jun 6, 2012

(I posted most of the below in another unrelated thread.)
I don't know how many stops remain for
BMW Drive for Team USA - BMW North America
and I don't know their schedule, but if you have some free time and you like unsupervised test drives, check it out. They had the 3 328i's, a 335i and competitor's cars that you could try: Audi A4, Mercedes C250 and Lexus IS250. I didn't like the Mercedes that much and the Audi A4 (being FWD) seemed to have noticeable torque steer, even w/o hard acceleration. It was weird. I've driven plenty of FWD cars before and am familiar w/torque steer on my former 02 Nissan Maxima.

At the end, they give you a little schwag: a BMW hat and a BMW insulated metal travel mug. There was also plenty of free (pretty good) food. I should've skipped lunch before going there.

For signing up online, I also received a $10 Starbucks gift card. Also attendees receive some sort of $1000 incentive towards the purchase of a new BMW...

Anyhow, some random impressions about the cars:
- The auto-stop/start on the 328i was a bit amusing. The ICE starting sounds are very similar to that of a conventional car but very brief. It's not like that of Priuses. I heard the ICEs on other 328i's on event restarting.
- 328i had plenty of power and was reasonably quiet for a 4 banger. I now kinda miss both my 287 hp 350Z and (255 hp 02 ) Maxima. :/ Hmm... maybe when I'm due for a replacement for my Prius, I'll be buying a HyCam instead.
- iDrive is still quite complex and IMHO, overall not very safe to use while in motion.
- The 335i's auto-stop/start system didn't seem to be working. I tried playing w/the enable/disable button and it had no effect. 335i feels and sounds like a very different car. The test car had a sport package and had a very nice exhaust sound that could be heard in the interior.
- The test cars were pretty loaded w/LDW and some (?) blind spot warning systems. I didn't try those out.
- I still don't like the goofy turn signal controls on the BMW but I'm more used to them now.
- I didn't like the Merc very much and also don't like where they put the cruise control stalk. It's at the position and angle where Japanese automakers put their turn signal lever.

cwerdna · Jun 10, 2012

After the BMW test drive event, I did some Googling about the Audi A4 torque steer/weirdness I experienced and stumbled across Team USA Experience - Page 7 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums. All I can say from below is that some folks are expecting too much from test drive events, esp. ones where many people can sign up and people can also drop in:

The five mile route(up freeway to next off-ramp and back) was way too short. My wife and I were hoping for a 20-30 minute drive over varied terrain to really get to know the car, so the 10 minutes was really inadequate. I don’t know why they made it so short other than overbooking (maybe too many customers and not enough cars?).
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People posting on that date or within a few days after were definitely at the same event as I was.

FWIW, I felt the Volt test drives that we got in WA state were surprisingly long, in a good way (Chevy "Volt Unplugged" Tour (test drives) - October thru November 2010 | PriusChat).

Test drive event discussion thread

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Test drive event discussion thread

cwerdna Senior Member

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