The American auto companies start new perception campaign

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Jan 3 2007, 07:00 AM) [snapback]370024[/snapback]</div>

Seems like they are saying: Who you gonna believe, us, or your lying eyes?

So, American cars have 2.34 problems per vehicle, and Asian cars have 2.08? That seems reasonable, I guess, but my experience has been that the American cars I've owned seemed to have more serious problems, and right from the get go, but YMMV. The problem for the big 3, at least from someone my age (40s), is that I've bought several new Fords and GMs (it only took one Chrysler product) in my life, and based on the experiences I had with them, GM lost me for good, Ford I'd consider, but it would take something innovative and interesting to get me into the showroom, and I'm just not seeing it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Jan 3 2007, 07:00 AM) [snapback]370024[/snapback]</div>

No, no, no, you're reading it all wrong. You're supposed to stop reading after the "270". Because everyone knows the American Brain can't handle so many different numbers in one sentence.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Jan 3 2007, 06:00 AM) [snapback]370024[/snapback]</div>

Jack, it will be interesting to see what you say when GM quality passes toyota quality. Word in the automotive world is that toyota has all kinds of problems with the new plant in San Antonio.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Jan 3 2007, 09:48 AM) [snapback]370081[/snapback]</div>

It is certainly trending that way right now. It will be interesting. Were your dealership experiences that much different at GM dealers than Toyota dealers and how long ago were the experiences?

 

So if the transmission falls out of an American-made car, and a Japanese car develops a squeeky glove-box hinge that has to be oiled, that's one "defect" each and they're equal?

NOT!!!

A defect that causes the car to die when you're 20 miles from home on a dark road is not the same as a defect that requires you to ask the mechanic to have a look when you go in for your next oil change.

My first car was American made. (A 1976 American Motors Jeep CJ-5.) That car left me stranded several times per year during the 12 years I owned it, and it took forever to get parts for it. Once, when the distributor failed, I had to wait 6 weeks, with no car, before they could get the part.

My next car, an '89 Civic, which I owned for 15 years, required occasional repair work, but never even once left me stranded or refused to start. Repairs were always things that could be scheduled at my convenience, never anything that caused the car to die, or to be unable to start and run safely.

If an American company is the first out with a real EV, I'll buy it. Otherwise I'm buying Japanese. Counting "defects" is meaningless if you don't include information on what the defect is.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 3 2007, 10:17 AM) [snapback]370067[/snapback]</div>

I bought a first year Tundra from the Princeton Indiana plant, and could not have been happier. Dealer service, what little I've needed, has been excellent. Replaced an O2 sensor for free, out of warranty with no hassle. In fact, one of the best car/dealer experiences I've had. Guess they want to keep my business, unlike a certain other brand I can think of. Anyway, all that aside, I don't think planning on Toyota to drop the ball is a good strategy for the success of GM, but you never know. After all, if you had told me in 1972 that GM would be down to 22% of the car market and relying on selling station-wagon bodied trucks in about 30 years or so, I'd have thought you were shooting up some of that mary jane or something.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Jan 3 2007, 12:15 PM) [snapback]370174[/snapback]</div>

Jack I know there are legions of consumers that had really bad experiences with their GM vehicle. Believe me I know this in a very first-hand way. GM quality is on the way up and will eventually surpass Toyota's. It already has in a few market segments.
I understand and respect the fact you woul dnever own a GM vehicle, I do have to correct you when you state build cars that no one wants. Remember even after all its problems and lost market share that GM still sells more cars in the US and the world than any other manufacturer. They have made significant strides in all facets in the last couple of years and will continue to into the forseeable future. At this point in time I am much more worried about my Ford and Chrysler franchises. Not much hope on the horizon.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Jan 3 2007, 01:15 PM) [snapback]370174[/snapback]</div>

You pretty much took the words out of my mouth. My last GM experience was so horrible that I'd never go back to them. If I have problems with Toyota comparable to the problems we had with our S-10 and our Pontiac, and are dealt with the same way the GM & their dealers handled us, then Toyota will probably lose my business and I'll try another Ford, or Korean (or probably Chinese in a few years) cars. So far, though, Toyota seems to be wanting to keep my business.

 

In my last Ford, I used the ashtray as a 'mystery fastener' receptacle. After a couple of years, I had to transfer all the little parts to an old peanut butter jar, so many things had fallen off the seats, dash, etc.

This was an '89 Mustang convertible.

Regarding the U.S. auto industry, a little less work on 'perception' and a little more on 'reality' would probably serve well, in my opinion.

 

Years ago my folks got a brand new truck and had a 100-gallon gas tank put on the bed of the truck so that they could haul their 5th wheel while touring the country. Needless to say, it was a Chevy, the whole transmission fell out of the truck while they were a 100 miles away from Amarillo TX. Lucklily no one was hurt and they were CB'd by a trucker who was kind enough to take them back to Amarillo where they ending up having to get a tow truck to go back and forth. They had to spend the night in town, and were able to get it fixed. But dang on, a brand new truck!? It was still under warranty but I am telling you now, I would never buy a Ford, they just don't have a better idea. (Lightbulb). I've bought 2 cars, one new, and one used, both American. The new one had transmission problems right from the start. Had to get it AMCCO'd. Second one, every time it went into the shop, the techies found something else wrong with it. Too much $$$$$! I am buying a Toyota the next time. As a matter of fact, I am thinking of buying some of their stock too. Does that tell you anything?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 3 2007, 07:17 AM) [snapback]370067[/snapback]</div>

Didn't you write a while back that you were acquiring a Toyota dealership to go along with your GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler shops? What happened, did Toyota nix the deal? Is that why you are so full of bitterness and scorn?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Jan 3 2007, 09:22 AM) [snapback]370040[/snapback]</div>

Yes! I've heard that, for these purposes, quality problems are sometimes broken down into three categories.

Was the problem an irritant (like a rattle) a more serious issue (like an amber warning light on the dash) or something that disabled the car at the side of the road and forced the driver to call for roadside assistance (like the transmission parting company with the rest of the car, for example).

From what I've read, American cars tend to have more of the latter two types of problems...these are lots more expensive for the manufacturer to fix under warranty...cause more downtime...and contribute most to the 'American cars suck' viewpoint.

 

GM: It's not a defect covered by warranty. It's supposed to do that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 3 2007, 01:32 PM) [snapback]370187[/snapback]</div>

With a big enough rebate you can probably get anyone to buy anything. If the product was moving rebates wouldn't be offered. Now if GM were to give me a $40000 rebate I would seriously consider buying a Corvette.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimN @ Jan 3 2007, 08:14 PM) [snapback]370449[/snapback]</div>

LOL! After I replaced the third set of engine clips on my Saturn I complained about it being a design flaw that the engine clips kept breaking and I had to keep replacing them every few years. I always knew when they had broken because the car shook something awful when stopped at a light. The service guy told me they considered it routine maintenance.

My a$$!.

GM would have to do two things:
1. They'd have to bring their quality up consistently across the board to equal or surpass Toyota.
2. They'd have to sustain it there for 20 years, because too many people have long memories and they're not going to take 1, 2, or 3 years of Consumer Reports word for it. It will be YEARS before GM can live DOWN it's crappy reputation. A bad reputation is not an easy or a quick fix.