The Math

Sure, but the cheapest car available doesn't even begin to compare to a Prius when it comes to features. A more adequate comparison would be between the Prius and a similarly-equipped Camry. (The Prius is a midsize car!) The bare-bones Camry CE starts at $18,470.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brick @ May 8 2007, 08:02 PM) [snapback]437930[/snapback]</div>

Plus, take a look at the quality of the Prius as compared to the cheaper auto. Then look at what it is worth 3-4 years down the road. How many of those cheap cars are in the garage or stranded beside the road? Does the cheaper auto have the Consumer Report s seal of approval? And, remember that if you own a Prius, you are a member of the Prius Club and entitled to all the rights thereof as written in the organizational constitution!

 

Hi BB,

Well, the problem is one of comparing apples and oranges. If an apple is good enough, your partially right. If you want to compare similar cars, your wrong. Consider a engine powered bicycle - 150 mpg, maybe $2000 , way ahead of that $10 K car, let alone the Prius.

There was thread on here about a Bloomberg article and buying 2 South Korean Chevy Aveo's versus a Prius. Matching up the option packages to make as close a comparison as possible, and the cost at the end of vehicle life were very similar. And that, without having to go to the shop for alternator, starter and brakes repairs. Whcih makes for an advantage to the Prius. If the Aveo were to need a transmission repair in that 150K miles, well then the Aveo buyer is in the hole. Here is a link with my post that tallies this up: http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=30770&st=0

Another comparison is between the Camry Hybrid, and the Camry V6, which can be bought with similar option packages. The Hybrid is a little cheaper and accellerates within a second of the V6 to 60 mph. Yet gets much better overall mileage. This is a very close comparison.

An ownership cost test was run by the Idaho National Labs on the 2004 Prius. In that report they say their two Prius test cars, which are both over 120 K miles are both under $.20 / mile total ownership costs. Here is a link to the hybrid car test reports page: http://avt.inl.gov/hev.shtml .

Edmunds has a nice cost-to-own page. I did a quicky comarison of a 2007 Prius and a 2007 Kia Spectra 4 Dr Automatic transmission car, and the Prius came out a penny cheaper at $.48/mile for five years / 60 K miles ownership and a financed purchase. BTW, the Aveo came out cheaper at $.46 per mile, but as the automatic transmission is not standard in any of the option levels, its not included in the calculated costs. This evaluation does not favor the Prius longevity, and even so it comes out ahead - which as shown i nthe INL evaluation would drop ownership per mile to less than half at 120K miles.

So, if your going to spend that very similar amount of money, what would you want ? A Kia Spectra, or a Prius ?

 

my dad who has spent a lifetime figuring pros and cons of any purchase he has ever made. he also did the same comparison but according to him, getting a comparable car was non-Prius, about 17,000, Prius about 25,000 (yes he lives in an area where Priuses sell for more than MSRP) so his difference was only 8,000 and he admitted that the $17,000 cars simply didnt have some of the features at any price, iow, some of the features for the safety version with side airbags, namely TRAC and VSC simply are not available on a lot of the other cars.

so in just mileage alone, it would take a while to get his investment back (at age 76 he probably wont) but as he put it, the quality and the safety plus his near fanatical devotion to Toyota made it a no-brainer for him. he traded in his 05 Camry (he was on a waiting list for a Prius for 6 weeks but couldnt wait any longer) when he picked up his 07 last week.

 

Best to look at cost per cubic foot per mile.

The Prius is 96 cu. ft passenger and 14.4 cu ft cargo. That about 110 cu ft. total. At about 22k msrp that comes out to $200 / cu ft.

So lets take the 10k econo-box and make it Prius like. Chevy Aveo. First we add in the Prius standard features.
2000 to get LS trim
1000 for automatic transmission
400 cruise control
300 for radio
300 for power windows
400 for brakes
100 for steering wheel controls.

brings option kit up to about 5700 so total is now at 15700.

Now look at price per cu. ft. Aveo is 98 cu ft. Prius has about 10% more room so that is another 10% value. So now we are at 15700 + 1570 = about 17300.

That makes them pretty apple to apple.

Now Prius is really EPA=55 and the Aveo is EPA=29. So at 3/gal assuming EPA conditions, the Prius is about a $0.05 cheaper a mile on gas. With the Prius premium of 4700 (apples to apples), we come even at 96k. Under nonHypermiler driving, 15% below EPA you even out at 83.5k

Further:
2.5/gal @ EPA, even at 115k
2.5/gal @ nonEPA, even at 100k

So If you keep it forever, and forever is more than 115k, Prius is cheaper.

What if you sell it before 115k. Well if you work in trade-in values of Toyota's compared to Chevy's, the Prius is better off from day one, and just gets better every day there after.

Now that said, I'd still get the Prius even if I didn't break even cause I want to vote with my wallet, but I've yet to find someone talked dollars and sense out of a Prius.

For what it's worth, based on 2.5/gal, there was one car that beat the Prius on my research (think it was Civic nonHybrid). In the end, ether on early trade-in or driving it into the dirt, it was always about $1000 ahead of the Prius.

I actually did this calculation on all 4-door cars (I carpool and need 4 doors). Prius really did beat every car (save one) on $$ alone.

So in the end I took the gamble on the tax rebate, if I get it, I'll be ahead, if not, I would have paid 1000 more for the privilege of driving a Prius... I can live with that.

11011011

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dan. @ May 8 2007, 11:29 PM) [snapback]438040[/snapback]</div>

Wow, thanks for sharing...it looks like you did a lot of work to come up with all that. It's good to see the value of the car we drive.

And, as fuel prices continually rise, I think the value of the Prius will taper off less and less, and may even quit dropping altogether. After all, in most metropolitan areas, the Prius seems to have a pretty high value!

And, honestly, I think buying a pre-owned Prius is the best way to go, if you can get one at a reasonable price. My wife and I picked up our used 2002 Prius at about $9800.00 with about 79,000 miles on the odo. We've had a great experience so far! And, should anything go wrong, it looks like repair parts aren't too difficult to come by. The repair manual, however...

 

If the Prius is made mostly out of aluminium, no wonder it costs so much to fix all the dings, the dangs, the fender benders, not to mention totaling the car for a very minor accident.

Really now, figure the cost of that into the Prius and there is no way that the cost of ownership is going to be anywhere near cheap.

The only 2 good things about the Prius is the fact that it won't use a whole bunch of gas, plus it's got all the newest gadgets and electric gizmos.

As far as safety is concerned, yeah you gonna wanna have the airbags all around, especially if the car bangs up real nice & easy.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Prius, but it is just not economical in the least.

 

Hood and rear deck(?) are aluminum, no other body parts. The car doesn't "bang up real easy," it's rated 4/5 and 5/5 without the added airbags.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ May 8 2007, 07:00 PM) [snapback]438008[/snapback]</div>

For a beater, the Kia Spectra. It has a way better OEM suspension.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KTPhil @ May 9 2007, 12:57 PM) [snapback]438475[/snapback]</div>

Hatch.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ May 9 2007, 03:42 PM) [snapback]438412[/snapback]</div>

Hi Loveit,

Well, like the other poster said the only body parts made of alluminum are the hood and hatch lid. The rest of the car is made of UHSS (ultra high strength steel), which allows the car to be lighter at the same strength. So, it does not crush as much in a crash (because there is less momentum to dissipate). The only thing better would be Carbon Fiber composite. But who has 1/2 a mil for the Mercedes sports car - which is the only production road vehicle made with Carbon Fiber composite at this time.

Can you supply some references to the claims in your first paragraph?

I would not call a Chevy Aveo an expensive car, yet the Prius is as cheap as it, and cheaper if the Aveo you get needs a transmission job in the first 100 K miles.


Nushrike,

The point is , that for beater life-time ownership costs you can get a Prius. Here is a review of the Spectra from Edmunds: http://www.edmunds.com/kia/spectra/review.html . The top price is now up over 16 K.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dan. @ May 8 2007, 10:29 PM) [snapback]438040[/snapback]</div>

when i went to build your aveo i was quoted about 15,000 for a fully loaded car, then when i went to the consumer reports website, i found out that the 2006 model doesnt offer tire pressure monitoring, traction control, stability control and only 46% of aveo owners would buy the car again.

trouble spots for reliability for the the aveo are ignition, air conditioning, and cooling

as far as budget car goes, they reccomend the honda fit with the nissan versa scoring 1 point higher

well to tell the truth, just about every car in the budget car department on consumer reports (for automatic and manual transmission) scores higher then the aveo

 

isn't the Aveo just a rebranded Kia Rio?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ May 9 2007, 02:42 PM) [snapback]438412[/snapback]</div>

Wth are you talking about. Im 20 and i bought a 2005 prius for 18 k with 50k miles on it. Im getting 50 mpg and the car is FRIGGING huge. Most new cars cost about the same and get much less MPG, have much less features, and have much less room. Plus none hybrids cant be modified to get 100+ mpg with certain kits. If you don't own a prius how do you know how much it costs to fix a ding?.... "As far as safety is concerned, yeah your gonna wanna have the airbags all around, especially if the car bangs up real nice & easy."..... . What is that supposed to mean? bang up real easy, its a car like any other, and the front and rear are meant to "bang up easy" so you DONT BREAK YOUR NECK in a wreck. havnt your ever watched those crash shows on NBC, the cars that give in easily in front provide much more cushion for their passengers. Wow just reading your post is giving me a headache. There are barely any cars that are made "mostly " out of aluminum as it would cost a fortune, nice try though. The car only uses aluminum in the front hood and hatch, which makes allot of sense. How do you "total a car for a very minor accident".. that doesn't even make sense? Why do you think your required to have insurance in the first place?

There is nothing new about the "gadgets and gizmo's" they are just unique and well known to the prius, blame Toyota for trying to improve the ease and use a vehicle. As far as i know my prius didn't come with any gadgets, it is a pretty cool gizmo's though. I like the touch screen interface but its not revolutionary and its the smartest thing they could have done, the car will definitely keep its value because of it.

If you feel that way about the prius then why not get a yaris and stick a touchscreen computer on it and call it good. Those get pretty good MPG too.

 

While you're at it, figure up the cost of a new planet.

Yeah, it's getting to that point, and the people who refuse to acknowledge this are missing one of the biggest reasons to go with a Prius.

There's also the little issue of the Persian Gulf, and our insane dependence on foreign oil, much of it in Islamic lands. In other words, when you buy gas, you are funding our enemies. Figure in the costs of that.

There are plenty of reasons besides personal finance to buy the most fuel-efficient vehicle possible.

Most of the people who say a Prius costs too much are driving vehicles that cost more: large pickup trucks and SUV's, or high $$ luxury cars! Because those vehicles are such a high percentage of vehicles sold in America, choosing a Prius would actually result in a cost savings.

Harry

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ May 9 2007, 05:32 PM) [snapback]438598[/snapback]</div>

I am not tryin to be smart alecky, but look at the threads posted here on the forum. That's all they talk about is how much it costs to fix everything. It seems that a lot of the smaller dings, dents, and whatnot shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg but from the looks of it but posters' accounts, it does.

I am saving to buy a Prius with cash one day, hopefully. But I have serious doubts about having to shell out thousands of dollars to have a car fixed for fender benders, dings, scratches, and minor dents.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Earthling @ May 10 2007, 07:18 AM) [snapback]438977[/snapback]</div>

Sorry, I don't drive a large pickup truck, SUV, or high $$ luxury car. I drive a 2nd hand used vehicle: an 1998 Voyager. I got it for carpooling the kids to school. Now that they are on their own, I want a much smaller car. Preferrably a Toyota. I have my heart set on a Prius, but I do not know!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AndreJ @ May 10 2007, 06:37 AM) [snapback]438960[/snapback]</div>

You don't have to get nasty and use dirty words.

You tell me, most of the posters on the forumn have had a number of very minor accidents which have cost them thousands of dollars to have repaired. Why is that? Especially if the car is built for saftey standards, that's great. But what if you don't have the money to make repairs for such minor things? When I see threads like the ones the posters are putting up, it tells me that the body of the car is not strong enough to ward off the minor infractions of dings and such. Or am I being overly sensitive about what is being posted in regards to such repairs?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boulder Bum @ May 10 2007, 03:47 PM) [snapback]439406[/snapback]</div>

Actually it does not.

You forgot to calculate the depreciation of the crappy car compared to the Prius.

What we are really talking about is true cost to own (TCO)

Yahoo autos, MSN Autos and Intellichoice/Edmunds ALL show the Prius to be very high/lead in these comparisons.

The competitors are the aged and boring 07 Corolla or the cool but a tad overpriced Civic. I just looked at these extensively as I just bought my Prius.