The real demand for 2010

We're on the same page, I think. The predicted increased MSRP was a BIG turn off for me and which persuaded me to go to the 2009 instead. Yes, the 2010 does have better interior room, or so I've heard... and yes, all of the new accessories are all trivial and a bit showy if you ask me. As for the gas mileage, it's only, technically, a 4 MPG gain (46 vs. 50 combined) which, in the grand scheme of things wouldn't really save someone much money, in my opinion. Either way, you're saving tons of money, whether you choose the 2009 or the 2010. But, really I don't see a reason for people who have a Gen 2 to upgrade to the Gen 3. Sure they changed the interior layout, not much, and yeah the outside looks a little more sporty and cleaned up, but overall, you're getting the same car unless you shell out thousands and thousands more for the cool, high-tech accessories, which once people see the prices, I doubt they will opt for. These are all my opinions... Hope it helped.

 

It makes no sense to trade in a great running car for a new one, unless you have the money and desire to. Riding a bike or walking are certainly more economical in terms of fuel use, so if you live downtown and work there too, why have a car at all?

You're both looking at the surface, at the accessories, not the underlying evolution of HSD. Consider a couple of features you can't see: the 2010 Prius has no belts, the ICE/motors and PSD in the 2010 are designed for higher-speed driving typical in North America.

The 2010 Prius may not be for you, just as you didn't buy a Prius in 2000 or 2004. But the 2012 or 2015 model, based on the 2010 may be exactly what you need then. The 2010 was designed to be extensible: no redesign will be needed to accommodate different battery technolgy. And it will certainly be safer and more efficient than what you're driving now.

 

I think the real answer to this question will come with the driving impressions when the embargo is lifted. Because surely what Toyota most needed to do with the Gen 3 (from a sales perspective) was make the car more desirable to your average consumer who just felt they would be making too many compromises with a Gen 2.

I'm such a person. I think the Gen 2 looks noddy whereas the Gen 3 looks great. Far more dynamic. I want a car that handles and is fun to drive. Hopefully the Gen 3 will deliver (even if only on the 17" wheels). For all the talk of the extra 4mpg with the standard car, no one has yet reported on the difference the "Eco" mode makes in the real world for the hyper milers out there. And nothing will beat sitting in one and seeing one in the flesh when they start to appear in dealers. Hopefully on March 25th we'll start to get a much better idea of what others think.

As the Insight, I think Honda missed a trick with this car. It didn't break the 100g Co2 barrier which was a big mistake (why buy a hybrid in the UK if you still have to pay road tax?); where as the 2010 Prius sails under it comfortably (89g on 15" and 92g on 17"). The Insight is just no where near as sophisticated as the Prius. It has that awful roof line that peaks far too early like the Gen 2 Prius, robbing rear passengers of head room for no reason whatsoever. It's just much smaller (and yet its worse on fuel???). OK it's cheaper to buy but I think it's obvious your getting a whole lot more machine and capability with the 2010 Prius.

 

<AHEM!>
Neither car is available for sale in the USA. Our friends in Japan have the option of buying a Honda Insight but to the best of my knowledge, 2010 Prius sales have yet to begin. But I understand that folks have to 'talk it through' to plan their future.

In about six months, we should all be able to visit our local Honda and Toyota dealers look at the 'as built' cars. Right now, a few early production units and sales material are all we have. Come March 25, we'll have more data. When the cars arrive on the show room floors, we'll gain even more. No doubt, today's $20k seems to be a natural barrier but when these cars actually become available, that $20k barrier may have moved.

Bob Wilson

 

My comments...
1. The concept of solar panels running the A/C must've started out an urban myth. I doubt Toyota would've made that claim a year ago and not live upt to it today.
2. Pure electric mileage: yup no surprise here. The battery just isn't big enough to provide a substantial range. My plans are to see what Toyota is going to provide us when they release the plug-in hybrid. I suspect they are wrapping that up as we speak - then begin road tests. Toytoa plans to release the Plug-in version in a couple years. The Gen3 will become the Gen4 and the transition will basicly amount to the new battery and charging equipment.

I'm going to enjoy my '09 Package 5 for the next couple years and see how the plug-in shakes out.

 

There won't be many places selling them for over MSRP ... even if they were, just wait a short while and that will change.

 

I think there will be some good deals, but they will not be a good as we would like. With the large surplus of 2009's (at least around where I live) they are going to have to price the 2010 somewhat higher than the 2009's or they won't be able to get rid of the 2009's (unless they lower the 2009's price). And if you're willing to wait until all the 2009's are sold and plenty of 2010's fill the production pipe, then there may be some room for price negotiation. Except, of course, if gas prices spike again...

From what I've been able to find online, the unannounced Prius I will be the model that goes toe-to-toe with the Insight. Prius models II - V appear to be in a league all by themselves.

 

Solar powered vent option also comes with the Remote A/C. Solar powered vent can lower 31 deg F. I really doubt leaving a crack in windows do that. There is also a safety concern there.

As you walk to the car, you can press the A/C button on the remote. That will lower additional 31 deg F using the HV battery pack. The total result is 63 deg F lower!



See the graph below in deg C (176 deg F -> 113 deg F):

 

After seeing the 2010, I would never buy a Gen II. I'd trade my Gen II in on it in a second.

 

Without reading all the other posts, and I'm going to catch stuff for this ....

but, if you commute only 5 minutes to work, why would you buy a hybrid anyway? Would you be sharing the car with an S/O who would drive it too?

The hybrid battery warranty is 10 yrs/150k miles in CA and some other states. 15k miles / year ... that's quite a bit of driving.

 

The guy said he was 6ft4in tall ...

Note to him ... if the seat does not slide back far enough to your liking, it virtually cannot be fixed.

Toyota left too much leg room in the back seat of the Gen2 car and not enough headroom in my opinion. Both of these things are unfixable, but they have been fixed in the Gen3.

There are big differences and improvements in the 2010, many for tall people.

 

Well said. I fall into the latter.

 

First ... nothing has been announced or decided. We're probably at least a month or so away from an announcement so everything else is speculation.

Second ... your objection is to 'a higher MSRP'. Well the obvious point is how much higher! $300 higher model for model? Who cares, I wouldn't care if I was going to replace my 2005. With more power, better fuel economy, some added improvements inside and a year new model I'd say that a $300-$500 price bump is probably realistic.

Third ... There will be good deals of course depending on the overall supply and demand. If the pricing is very close to the 2008/09 model prices but with more vehicle for the money then I can see an awful lot of Gen 1 and early Gen 2 owners re-upping initially thus keeping supply low and pricing firm. That's just normal business.

As an example the Gen 6 Navi units in the 2010 are going to be far far far better than the ones in the original 2004's, the BT is much easier to use and the interior has more features.

Fourth ... If you have a perfectly workable Gen 2 that will last you 10+ years is there any reason to obsess over the 2010? By the time your Gen 2 gives up there will be a Gen 4 with your name on it. If however you absolutely must have a 2010 ... well that's one of the reasons they introduce new models every 5 yrs or so, to attract the trader-uppers.

 

This really resonated with me, thanks for posting that

 

uh, not exactly right. I'm 6'-5". I fit. I modded the rails. Even before that, I fit. Now I fit better. And on the 2010 test drive, I fit even still better. Others have modd'ed their rails as well, but yea, I suppose on the DIY scale that counts as "virtually"

oh, then there's also NO bladder, that gives it my swing vote.

 

Yeah. This sucker's too big, really - parking spaces were designed for Morris Minors and the like, and we figure that it wouldn't fit into my parents' garage. They used to have a Ford Escort Estate which according to parkers.co.uk was 4302mm long - my 2008 Prius is 4450mm long, about 6" longer. The garage door won't shut on that. (The current Focus hatch is 4337mm - segment inflation is a problem. The Ford Cortina of the early 1970s - officially a 'large family car', a segment up from the Focus - was only 4267mm long.)

Still, I decided I wanted the technology, and if Toyota won't make it in a smaller car, a Prius it is, until they're producing enough volume to put it in an Auris - or license to someone who will put it in a smaller car.

Incidentally the supposed reason for not putting HSD in an Auris is that the entire engine+transaxle package is a very tight fit width-ways. The Auris is 1760mm wide - the 2008 Prius only 1725mm. The current Yaris is about an inch narrower than Prius (1694mm), but that's the same width as the Classic Prius. There's already a 40-50kg difference between a 1.3L petrol Yaris and a 1.4L D-4D diesel of otherwise similar specs.

 

Speaking of safety, it does occur to me that this energy saving solar-powered cooler could actually be a life-saver also.

We do hear sad incidences when pets or even infants that were left in the car under the sun? It could help delay, if not avoid, the on set of heat strokes.

I am curious if there is a auto on/off when cabin temp reaches certain danger level...