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Featured The steering "wheel" is disappearing..

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by PriusV17, Feb 12, 2024.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Yes, and I stand by it .
    Prius may prove to be popular, yoke style may prove to be popular, but reviewers comments in all aspects of product popularity are not an indicator of future desirability
     
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    They comments I saw were not about whether the yoke would be popular. It was about whether the yoke worked as Toyota advertised, and it did. Some of those reviewers expressed initial hesitation about that being true before they drove the car.
     
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  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Prediction. Just as the steering wheel is becoming passe ... eventually the yolk will start to die off as well somewhere down the line ~ manufacturers opting instead for the side stick like in aviation. Well ... now won't THAT freak everybody out. Bring it on!

    .
     
  4. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Technical detail:

    If you hold the yoke at full lock while decelerating, does the steering angle increase because of the speed reduction?
     
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  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Or entry into a spin.

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    Hey, where's the spinner knob? (I always had a hard time finding the horn bar...)

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    The original horseless carriages had a center "stick" called a tiller.

    The reason they switch to a steering wheel with a self centering function based on wheel alignment is stability so that the car automatically tracks forward when one releases hands off the wheel.

    In a panic emergency situation grabbing and moving a stick too fast can be a disaster.

    Worse yet, a sidestick requires a high degree of practice and intuitive spatial relationship training to equate any movement to a non-centered control paradigm. A movement of the stick to the right will not result in the same movement as a movement to the left.

    A side stick is very sensitive to very small movements which can be disastrous in heavy traffic. This is not an issue with an aircraft where the a lot of available space to make corrections.

    The steering wheel developed over decades with the advent of the automobile and being tried and true will not likely disappear.
     
    #27 Georgina Rudkus, Feb 14, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2024
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    cars quickly got heavier prior to power steering so a steering wheel gave greater leverage actually - similar to lanyard winches on bigger sailboats.
    that's exactly why we have computer controls now for big planes .... for the most part - they are not flying by piano wire controls. Tesla steering yoke is a perfect example. It calculates for fast & slow speed before you can turn the wheel hard - which turns less than 100° off center each way.
    Maybe, but having only flown one plane w/ side sticks, it didn't seem to be a big deal.
    .
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Depends on the software. Sounded like Toyota's system was very intuitive, and the drivers adapted to it quickly.
     
  10. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Fascinating question.
    Wish I could test to find out. I am very intrigued as to how that works.

    I would guess ‘yes’. I would think that would take some getting used to. I would also think it would feel very intuitive once you do.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Looks like the yoke’s on us
     
  12. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    can we get rudder pedals too like in aviation too with radar cruise and automated braking maybe no cluch or accelerator pedal are needed ;-)
     
  13. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

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    It would be just as easy to have a tiller self-center as a steering wheel. That comes from the vehicle wanting to go straight once you get some inertia. Furthermore, "lot of space to make corrections" doesn't hold up on landing and takeoffs. In a panic situation moving anything too fast can be a disaster. I think this whole argument needs to be taken with a big grain of salt.

    I think a steering wheel simply takes less space than a tiller you need to move left and right past your knees, meaning there needs to be space between you and the front of the cabin. That's probably why the tiller was dropped so quickly, along with mechanical advantage as vehicles quickly got heavier. It should also be pointed out that the original 19th century tiller is not at all the same as an airplane yoke. The traditional center-stick yoke rotates much like a steering wheel, just shaped differently (and also tilts for nose up & down). The newer side-stick is fly-by-wire.

    Growing up on a farm, I've seen a variety of controls. Skid steer with left and right brakes for instance (either by foot or by hand), works pretty good for tight turns, but probably not terribly fuel efficient and takes some attention to keep it straight. This is also used on bobcats, bulldozers, etc. I drove a swather that had skid steer on the foot controls for turning at the end of each pass of a field, but also had a steering wheel for minor course correction on the straightaways. Tractors usually have the accelerator as a hand control, you set it to a particular speed and typically leave it there for a long time. Motorcycles and ATVs of course don't have a steering wheel, but it helps if you can lean. You have to extend one elbow or the other quite a bit on the sharp turns. Side-by-sides use a steering wheel - they're heavier and also you don't want to be elbowing your passengers. Except for that swather, you quickly get used to whatever you have. Or maybe I struggled with the swather because it was my first foot steering and well before I had a driver's license.
     
    #33 nerfer, Feb 19, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2024
  14. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Human beings are creatures of habit.

    Having been in the aircraft design, manufacturing and repair business for over 20 years and working with pilots, I can tell you that the level of concentration of pilots in flight, takeoff and landing is close to 100% all the time unless when the aircraft on autopilot.

    That is not what happens with drivers or cars.

    The steering wheel will be around for many years to come as will be the large shift knob at the center floor console.

    Almost all reviews in Consumer Reports and on the PBS Motorweek programs note how the reviewer find how rotary, push button and even Gen 2, 3 and 4 Prius shifters were not as convenient and not as desirable as the traditional big console shift knob.
     
    #34 Georgina Rudkus, Feb 19, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2024
  15. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    The converse might be more interesting. Does the steering angle decrease with speed increase? If so, is that the actual speed increase, or is it reading the wheel speed?

    What happens when you drift it, such that the wheel speed and progress across the road are deliberately out of sync?

    So many questions... :whistle:
     
  16. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    A modern side stick is more like a joystick built off to the side thusly ....

    1302velocity%20panel.jpg

    .... there's nothing to interfere around your knees
     
  17. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    That will fool the perception of the novice, since it is not be proportionally equal between the right toun and the left turn.

    It is not an easy spacial relationship to some individuals.
     
  18. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Probably why beginners have between 40 & 75 hours to get their license?
    ;)
    .
     
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Which wheel? Reports on the Toyota Yoke is that the software considers how fast the yoke is turned.
     
  20. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

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    And that's not at all like a 19th century tiller that we were comparing, but I think we're off topic now.