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The United States of Toyota

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by malorn, Oct 23, 2007.

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  1. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    I could not have said it better myself: ;)

    RANTS by Peter M. De Lorenzo


    Dear Mr. Toyoda...

    .................................................

    And the free pass you've been getting from the automotive and mainstream media for the last 10 years? It's about to evaporate into thin air. That little dustup generated by your Cheerleader in Chief, Tom Friedman, of The New York Times, two weeks ago over Toyota's apparent less-than-Jolly Green Giant marketing initiatives into gas-guzzling trucks and SUVs and the fact that you're siding with the Detroit Three in their quest for saner CAFE legislation is just the tip of the iceberg. You can dismiss most of it, because Friedman, like most of his Green Posse brethren, is totally clueless about the scope of Toyota's business model here in the U.S. (they're just now catching up to the fact that the Prius isn't how you make your money over here, and they're shocked, shocked that this is so). All of your accumulated "we're the most benevolent car company on the planet" goodwill and all that money you've spent on "hugs and smiles" marketing campaigns is about to get blown up real good. And with your Golden Marketing Boy gone and your organization reeling from his departure, your ability to respond in the necessary fashion will be compromised, at best...

    No individual or company can stay as hot as Toyota has for as long as it has. Yes, I know the mantra around your place is that "complacency is the enemy" and all the associated platitudes that go with that statement, but what do we know about Toyota of late, besides the fact that your Green halo is getting caught in the crossfire between the rabid Friedmanistas and the reality of making money in the U.S. - which is still the single most important market in the world?
    .............................................

    Whole article at: http://www.autoextremist.com/index.shtml

    [​IMG]
     
    #1 malorn, Oct 23, 2007
  2. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    gosh, I feel like tradin' "up" from my Prius to a cobalt...maybe even that new malibu. Gee, what AM I waitin' fer...

    Thanks, yet again, for a chuckle.
     
    #2 finman, Oct 23, 2007
  3. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ Oct 23 2007, 09:12 AM) [snapback]529252[/snapback]</div>
    Well see which company is where in two years. ;) The worm has finally turned in the media and it is already seeping into the consumers. :)
     
    #3 malorn, Oct 23, 2007
  4. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    Well, with that article and your apparent agreement with everthing that was said, i guess we get to stop hearing you complain about how evil Toyota is, and how all of us who buy it are just setting our economy up for ruin - After all, they're apparently starting to crumble and fall, huh?
     
    #4 eagle33199, Oct 23, 2007
  5. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    :rolleyes: And what else would you expect out of the Detroit press?
    Does he have some real points...sure. But it seems clear to me that Toyota will respond quickly to this tiny bump in problems. They still continue to dominate.

    I would expect no less from my college town local sports reporter when we've been losing to the arch rival for several years at the first sign of a chink in their armor.

    And still...I look for GM to succeed. I want the Volt to succeed more than you can possibly imagine. But already Lutz et al are making stupid choices. They're trying to shun the 'hybrid' label. He refuses to call it a plug-in hybrid and GM is actively seeking other names for the technology "Electric Vehicle with Range Extender"...ugh! The car IS a Plug-in Series Hybrid . Everyone knows what a hybrid is. People have come to accept hybrid technology as successful and viable. So GM, of course, wants to abandon the term. It seems that they work very hard to find ways to sabotage the good things that they start.


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Oct 23 2007, 09:16 AM) [snapback]529253[/snapback]</div>
    You're delusional if you believe that. I do believe GM can turn things around, but it'll take a lot more than 2 years and I hardly think the national press, nor consumers have 'turned'. Have you read the consumer reports this month? While a couple of Toyota's vehicles took hits the overall impression of GM is terrible...nay, abyssmal.
    2 years...please.
     
    #5 efusco, Oct 23, 2007
  6. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 23 2007, 09:20 AM) [snapback]529256[/snapback]</div>
    This guy only a few short years ago was in the choir singing Toyota's praises. That little bump you are speaking of is not little anymore. Toyota will have some major recalls in the next two months on the Tundra and Camry. Transmission problems. You heard it here first. ;)


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 23 2007, 09:20 AM) [snapback]529256[/snapback]</div>
    toyota sales are donw in 5 out of the last 7 months. When they are down in October you will hear about it in the national media.
     
    #6 malorn, Oct 23, 2007
  7. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    And we all know you've tried. ;)

    Next time, provide an introductory paragraph and then a link.
    That's been the rule around here for at least three years. If not that I'm in a time pinch right this minute, I'd fix it myself. It would be nice if you did it yourself though I shouldn't expect to see it changed when I return.
     
    #7 TonyPSchaefer, Oct 23, 2007
  8. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Oct 23 2007, 10:26 AM) [snapback]529277[/snapback]</div>
    Sorry Tony. I hope this is better.
     
    #8 malorn, Oct 23, 2007
  9. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    malorn i truly hope this article is true.

    if so, i will no longer have to pay $24,000 for what i want. i can do what i used to do more than 20 years ago when i started at one end of auto row and made a half dozen stops to make my final decision on what i would be driving.

    i can now dicker with the salesman knowing that if he doesnt give me what i want, i can go next door and get what i want from THAT dealership...

    i really really want that. i drive Toyotas only now because none of that is currently true. i WANT gm to prosper. i want Ford to prosper (most of my family works for Ford, i want my family to be prosperous as well... makes for a much more pleasent Christmas dinner!!) but what i really want is a CHOICE!!

    sooooo.... GOOOOO GM!!
     
    #9 DaveinOlyWA, Oct 23, 2007
  10. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    malorn i truly hope this article is true.

    if so, i will no longer have to pay $24,000 for what i want. i can do what i used to do more than 20 years ago when i started at one end of auto row and made a half dozen stops to make my final decision on what i would be driving.

    i can now dicker with the salesman knowing that if he doesnt give me what i want, i can go next door and get what i want from THAT dealership...

    i really really want that. i drive Toyotas only now because none of that is currently true. i WANT gm to prosper. i want Ford to prosper (most of my family works for Ford, i want my family to be prosperous as well... makes for a much more pleasent Christmas dinner!!) but what i really want is a CHOICE!!

    sooooo.... GOOOOO GM!!
     
    #10 DaveinOlyWA, Oct 23, 2007
  11. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Oct 23 2007, 10:35 AM) [snapback]529286[/snapback]</div>
    It is true and it has been happening in slow motion for awhile, it now seems to really be picking up steam.
     
    #11 malorn, Oct 23, 2007
  12. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    You've already told the "GM will catch up with Toyota" joke. You need new material.
     
    #12 Stev0, Oct 23, 2007
  13. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

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    Why get all jingoist about it? If our national economy is based on the success of GM, then we're in trouble no matter who's making a better product than them (i.e. everyone).

    GM has a clear interest in turning their image and their product around, and I can get on board with asking, even begging for GM to do so, but I won't buy an inferior product from them just because I think their track record of weak marketing and bad executive decisions will miraculously change if we give them a chance.

    Would I cry if GM made a better (or even comparable) hybrid or electric car than Toyota? No, I'd go buy one.

    Do I like their TV ads proclaiming that hybrids are typically small and weak, but their new "Behemoth Monstrosity ONLY FULL-SIZED Hybrid SUV on the market" is the answer to our woes? No. What on earth do they even mean by "full-size?" Yes, that's a rhetorical question. Is my Prius now "child-sized?" How much "size" does one need? I have enough "size" where it counts, so I don't go out of my way to increase my "size" where it's not necessary.
     
    #13 Ichabod, Oct 23, 2007
  14. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ Oct 23 2007, 11:26 AM) [snapback]529309[/snapback]</div>
    Full-size equals a vehicle you can comfortably put six adults in and take to a game and tailgate, or load up a family of six and all their luggage and go across country, or load up with 6 hockey players and gear and take to a tournament. Some drivers have a real need to haul people and/or equipment. Aren't you making a decision as to what people need and don't need, it seems you are far too comfortable in that role for me.


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Oct 23 2007, 11:03 AM) [snapback]529296[/snapback]</div>
    They already have, it is just taking awhile for perception to catch up.
     
    #14 malorn, Oct 23, 2007
  15. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

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    You were too quick for my edit... check my post above for clarification :p

    And I'd buy a hybrid minivan over an SUV any day of the week. Why don't they make one of those? They're partly responsible for demoting the image of the minivan through marketing, so why not an effor to bring it up a notch or two? It's more practical, safer, less expensive... it's everything an SUV is without having the supposed ability to off-road, which nary an SUV driver does anyway.

    I'm not really arguing with you, I'm agreeing, but I just don't think "SUV" is the platform of future growth. The SUV brand is tarnished, and hopefully will only get worse. I want a practical and reliable vehicle that doesn't do more than it needs to do. Right now that's Prius for me, and GM doesn't make a vehicle that's competitive in that regard. It might change for me if my family grows, and by that point, maybe they'll have caught up with my needs. If not, I have a feeling Toyota might be selling something that will suit me.
     
    #15 Ichabod, Oct 23, 2007
  16. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ Oct 23 2007, 11:32 AM) [snapback]529312[/snapback]</div>
    Not to get off on another topic, but would you not agree that the term SUV has been way over-demonized? Is something inherently bad because it has the "capability" to go off-road to some degree?
     
    #16 malorn, Oct 23, 2007
  17. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    Sour grapes.

    In two years, GM will still be "in production" waiting for their 1,000 Volt experiment to come out in a limited run.

    And Toyota will have a plug in on the show-room floor with several EVs in the testing stages.

    You cannot make your candle burn brighter by trying to blow out Toyota's. I'm sorry you regret choosing to be a GM dealer rather than a Toyota dealer. But words aren't going to sell your cars. You need a better car.

    And the consumers aren't going to read these articles and decide NOT to buy a Toyota and buy a GM instead.
     
    #17 Godiva, Oct 23, 2007
  18. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

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    Sorry, I keep cross-editing over your replies Malorn.

    And yes, actually I do think there's something inherently bad about off-road capabilities for a vehicle when it's marketed to people who will in all likelihood never take that vehicle off a paved road. I'd venture a guess that a vast majority of SUV owners have not driven on surfaces that I couldn't safely navigate in my Prius.
     
    #18 Ichabod, Oct 23, 2007
  19. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Oct 23 2007, 11:40 AM) [snapback]529317[/snapback]</div>
    Actually GM was very late to the party, but "part" of Toyota's success over the last 15 years ahas been the fact they have had an unrivaled pr department. Now the PR department for Toyota has fallen apart and it is GM who has the great pr department, that combined with great products now and even greater products in the future will have a great impact on both GM and toyota. We shall see. :)
     
    #19 malorn, Oct 23, 2007
  20. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    oooh this topic just continously burns me!!! why hasnt Toyota brought this back??

    i had the chance to buy one for $55,000 a few years back... didnt because i thought SOMEONE would have done SOMETHING by now...and i was willing to go $35,000 for it.

    man was i WAAAAY OFF!!...
     
    #20 DaveinOlyWA, Oct 23, 2007
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