There should be some acknowledgement that arabs saved many jews from the holocaust in during WWII.

I believe there was also an Iranian ambassador or consulate of some kind would gave papers to Jews, claiming they were from a tribe in Iran. There is a TV show in Iran based on this true story and it is very popular. I heard this on NPR as well.

 

Changes my mind, I'll keep out of this one.

 

As Eric pointed out, many here have been saying a lot about trying to understand and get to know them, while only a few have been known to call for immediate military action...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Oct 10 2007, 12:51 AM) [snapback]523456[/snapback]</div>

Yes Arabs have helped protect and defend Jews.

They have also behaved in a less honorable manner towards Jews too, yes? You can study the jewish populations of the arab countries over the past 100 years for an answer this too.

They have in part a PR problem. For better or worse the majority of the worlds terror attacks are performed by Arabs/Muslims. You do not find many Catholic or Jewish suicide bombers making the front pages of the NY Times. Even in times of occupation - the Jews and Catholics refrained from targeting innocent civilians -- yes there are some incidents that they did - but not on the same scale as we are witnessing today.

I believe that the majority of Arabs/Muslims want to live in peace - it is the people that rule them or control them that is the larger issue. That being said, there is a deafening silence from the Arab "street" when it comes to terror attacks.

Additionally, their continued rocketing of Israeli towns and attacks on Israeli civilians after the return of the Gaza Strip does not help this situation. Instead of taking this opportunity of being given the gaza strip back for free and using it as a model of self determination and peaceful coexistence with Israel -- in what should have been an example of why the West Bank should be given to the PA - they turned it into an armed camp from which several thousand rockets have been launched at Israeli towns. Do I understand why they are doing this - in part - what I dont understand is why they cannot one time suit for peace or at the least take a situation like the return of the Gaza Strip and make it a shining example of what is possible - peace with Israel --- especially when they know/knew that the West Bank would have followed shortly thereafter.

Just a brief and short piece on this.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 10 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]523617[/snapback]</div>

Does it go both ways? Have Israelis acted in a less than honorable manner to their neighbors? To European civilians? To American servicemen?

Answer to all of the above is "Yes".

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 10 2007, 12:16 PM) [snapback]523642[/snapback]</div>

Yes they have - but that was not the topic of the post - why do you bring it up?

back to the post and as a sidebar to your post....

The Israeli's have sued for peace several times including:

Returning the Sinai
Returning the Gaza Strip
Releasing thousands of Palestinians from Israeli jails
Removing their forces from Southern Lebanon

Prior to the Intifada's the Israelis employed tens of thousands of Palestinians - gainfully. How many Israeli's have the Palestinians ever employed?

Routinely, Palestinians and other Arabs receive world class medical care in Israeli hospitals - please name one instance of an Israeli have the same done for them.

The Israeli's routinely elect "Peace" governments - name one peace government the Palestinians have elected?

They also grant Palestinians who live within the borders of Israel the same rights etc as Israeli's - they dont terrorize them, they dont invade their homes and murder them in cold blood - why cant Jews live in peace in the Gaza Strip when they returned it to the PA? Why wont the Palestinians allow the Jews living in the West Bank to stay and live in peace as citizens of the PA?

Please name ONE proposition for PEACE that was initiated by the Palestinians - just one. Name one spontaneous move by the Palestinians to suit for peace with Israel?

And please, if you want to weight histories entire ledger of being wronged - do you honestly think Israel has done more to its neighbors than its neighbors have done to it.

I dont see Israel threatening to wipe Iran off the map although it could if it wanted to. Israel has acted in self defense time and time again. What will it take in your opinion for Israel to obtain true peace with its neighbors?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 11 2007, 12:28 AM) [snapback]523582[/snapback]</div>

I want to note that I was going to contribute to this thread but to say what I was going to say would have taken many hours to type so it wouldn't be misread so I chose not to participate. I'd hate anyone to think I was forced to edit my first post in this thread, it was just I couldn't write clearly what I wanted to say.

I'll just say I would rather not stereotype people.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Oct 10 2007, 01:02 PM) [snapback]523675[/snapback]</div>

Too bad, would have loved to read it.

 

[ Even in times of occupation - the Jews and Catholics refrained from targeting innocent civilians -- yes there are some incidents that they did - but not on the same scale as we are witnessing today.

Having survived IRA bomb attacks in London, I beg to differ on this point.

Mike

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stringmike @ Oct 10 2007, 02:08 PM) [snapback]523708[/snapback]</div>

Good point. How many innocent civilians did they wound and kill over that time period if you could tell me - I am very interested. Also, did they use homocide/suicide bombers including women and children and mentally challenged children? I am also interested in knowing if they targeted buses or not and did they or did they not give warnings as to bombs about to go off? The bombs they used, did they contain extra anti-personnel objects like nails, metal shards, ball bearings??

Thanks for your point and I am really interested in knowing more about it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Oct 9 2007, 09:51 PM) [snapback]523456[/snapback]</div>

Yad Vashem, the Israeli Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority, is currently considering the first Arab candidate for the Righteous Gentile award.

Haaretz - Tunisian becomes first Arab nominated as 'righteous gentile'

Haaretz - Holocaust researcher asks Yad Vashem to recognize first Arab Righteous Gentile

By the way, of the more than 21,000 Righteous Gentiles who have been recognized to date around 60 are Muslims, mostly from Bosnia and Albania.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 10 2007, 08:28 AM) [snapback]523718[/snapback]</div>

Over a period of 28 years approx 700 civilians were killed. Scroll down to the bottom for the breakdowns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_I...paign_1969-1997

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Oct 10 2007, 11:46 AM) [snapback]523721[/snapback]</div>

In every group, there are those that reflect the image of God, and those that do not. It is good to remember those that do.

 

Its important to remember that Islam has changed pretty dramatically since the Second World War, with the Salafist movement growing after that (Salafisism is a kind of fundamentalism that doesn't recognize any Islamic traditions after the time of the Prophet). The Muslim Brotherhood and their philosophical/theological inspiration, Sayyid Qutb, started the modern Islamist - terrorist movement in Egypt from about 1948 on, in reaction to the loose morals and "oppression" of the west. Qutb was shocked by the American "whores" of the 1950's, who danced provocatively to "ear splitting" music/noise by the likes of Chubby Checkers and Elvis Presley, and who talked openly of taking pleasure in sex, a form of "oppression" possible only if you are repressed sexually as most of these losers are.

The problem is that surveys show a large minority of the Muslims agree with the tightly wrapped, repressed, fanatics who are promoting Jihad on at least a few issues: one survey showed that ~25% of American Muslims under 30 agreed with suicide bombing and the intentional killing of innocents to further Islam.

Just like the German people, many of whom hid Jews they knew but nevertheless agreed with the overall aim of ridding society of the imaginary "Jewish overlords", many Muslims today would not harm a flea but see no problem with warriors of Islam slitting the throats of infidel children to further the aims of the faith.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Oct 10 2007, 11:01 PM) [snapback]524005[/snapback]</div>

Which 'god', I wonder.

 

The question for that survey was about using violence to defend the faith. Slightly different than killing to spread it. It also didn't have a yes or no reply, but graduations on when it would be acceptable. To get the ~25%, you have to lump all the non-'absolutely not's together. That is the 'definitly's with the 'I'm against it, but you never know what the future will bring's.
The survey question was along the lines of this:
Would you shoot someone breaking into your house?
a) Yes, without question
B) Only if they were stealing
c) Only if they threaten to harm/kill me or my family
d) No, no matter the circumstances

That survey came out awhile ago, and we may be thinking of different surveys, but if not, I'm just informing you that the results reporting in the mainstream media may not mean what they lead you to believe.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PriuStorm @ Oct 10 2007, 09:26 PM) [snapback]524026[/snapback]</div>

I don't think the good rabbi misunderstood ... the concept is shared among Christians and Jews, and we know that it means all human life has intrinsic value, and that some people shine and show even more of that "light of God within" (as John Fox would say).

It is a an attempt at a unifying statement. Is yours?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ShellyT @ Oct 11 2007, 10:55 AM) [snapback]524161[/snapback]</div>

Polls do suffer from the way the question is asked, but at the very least, your analogy greatly minimizes what I feel the questions reveal. Also, I over-stated the results as about 25% when it was actually 15%.

The phrase "defending the faith" encompasses more than the western concept of self defense you allude to in your analogy. The riots and calls for assassinations for people offending the faith by making a cartoon of Mohammad, writing a book that mentions the embarrassing "Satanic Verses" in the Koran, etc. is important to remember. "Defending Islam" is to defend against criticism of the faith, not someone breaking down the door of a Mosque and killing those inside, as your analogy would lead someone to believe.

The full study by the Pew Research Center can be found online in this 680kb PDF File . On page 53 you find that they are combining two questions to arrive at the 15% figure.

The correct, moral, and right thinking answer is that suicide bombing is never justified. That 15% of the Muslims under 30 believe it is sometimes justified means they are either stupid or buy into the Jihadist mentality. And a much higher number say it is "rarely" or "ever" justified:

<div align="center"></div>