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Three New Detroit FP Hybrid Articles-Mileage-Payback-Resale

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Tempus, Jun 3, 2004.

  1. Tempus

    Tempus Senior Member

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    http://www.freep.com/money/autoreviews/hyb...3e_20040603.htm

    MARK PHELAN: Cutting the hybrid hype

    They gulp less gas but the fuel savings are better for city drivers
    June 3, 2004

    BY MARK PHELAN
    FREE PRESS AUTO CRITIC

    The summer driving season has arrived, and sky-high gasoline prices came along for the ride. Everyone from daily commuters to long-haul vacationers seems to be talking about the new generation of hybrid gasoline-electric powered vehicles, most of them with images of huge savings dancing in their heads.


    HONDA CIVIC HYBRID 42.7 average miles per gallon.

    FORD ESCAPE 33.3 average miles per gallon.

    TOYOTA PRIUS 48.4 average miles per gallon.

    Photos by DAVID P. GILKEY/DFP

    But do hybrids work? Are they practical? Will they really save you big bucks?

    Those are the questions we wanted to answer when we put the two best-selling hybrid cars and the first hybrid SUV to a real-life road test. A team of Free Press drivers took Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid sedans and a Ford Escape SUV for a 300-mile spin of Detroit-area roads, from major avenues like Woodward and Van Dyke, to winding residential streets and I-75 and the Lodge Freeway.

    RELATED CONTENT

    THE PAYBACK: EPA figures don't reflect real world
    http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/hybrid...3e_20040603.htm

    Evolving technology affects resale value of hybrid autos
    http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/hybrid...3e_20040603.htm

    HOW THE TEST WAS CONDUCTED

    For the Great Free Press Hybrid Challenge, 11 testers logged nearly 12 hours driving in the Ford Escape hybrid, Honda Civic Hybrid and Toyota Prius in convoy.

    The 300-mile drive route included 176 miles on surface streets that ranged from main arteries like Woodward and Michigan avenues to quiet back streets. The 124 highway miles included I-75, I-94 and the Davison. The total worked out to about 58 percent surface road and 42 percent highway.

    Each two-hour driving shift began and ended near the Detroit Free Press.

    To eliminate fuel-economy variations from different people's driving styles, the testers switched vehicles during each shift to ensure that each was driven the same number of miles by all drivers. Each driver spent one-third of the shift in the front vehicle, setting the pace for the group.

    In addition to myself, the test drivers in the Free Press Great Hybrid Challenge were: auto editor Leslie Allen; technology writer Jeff Bennett; auto writers Jamie Butters, Jeff McCracken, Jocelyn Parker and Sarah Webster; managing editor Thom Fladung; driving columnist Matt Helms; business editor Mike Sante; and Motor City editor Steve Spalding.

    We drove together, so that each vehicle traveled the same route at the same time, and we changed drivers regularly. Here's what we found:

    All three went a long way on a gallon of gas. The built-to-be-a-hybrid Prius averaged 48.4 miles per gallon. The Civic, identical in all ways but powertrain to other Civic models, averaged 42.7 m.p.g. while the front-drive Escape achieved 33.3 m.p.g. The Civic hybrid's mileage was 22 percent better than the EPA city rating for a comparable gasoline-powered model, while the Escape topped the EPA city rating for a comparable V6-powered model by a whopping 67 percent. The Prius doesn't have a comparable gasoline-powered model.

    As good as that is, none of them achieved the fuel economy most buyers would probably expect, based on manufacturers' projections and U.S. government Environmental Protection Agency ratings. The Prius' EPA city rating is 60 m.p.g. The Civic hybrid checks in at 48 m.p.g. on the EPA tests. The Escape hybrid, which goes on sale in late summer, hasn't been rated yet. But Ford expects a city rating of 35 to 40 m.p.g. for the front-drive model.

    That's because hybrids really do get much better fuel economy in stop-and-go driving on city streets than on freeways - exactly the opposite of what we've come to expect from conventionally powered cars and trucks. About 41 percent of the miles we drove were on freeways like the Lodge and I-94. In separate tests that consisted of more highway driving, we got about 37 m.p.g. in the Prius and Civic, and 25 m.p.g. in the Escape.

    As with conventional cars and trucks, there's a tradeoff between fuel economy and comfort, utility and practicality. The Prius got the best mileage, but made the most compromises in everything from its seats to its cargo space. The Escape, on the other hand, had the most interior room and storage space, but couldn't go as far on a gallon of gas.

    Hybrid technology is complex. While the Toyota and Honda have established a track record of hybrid reliability over several years, the power steering on our Escape kept cutting in and out, requiring us to wrestle our pre-production model around turns when it wasn't working. While the failure had nothing to do with the hybrid powertrain, the steering system is unique to the hybrid Escape. It's different from the steering system in any other Ford car or truck, and Ford will have to demonstrate better reliability to keep customers happy when hybrid Escapes go on sale late this summer.

    Hybrids are all the rage with environmentally and socially conscious drivers. By getting better fuel economy than traditionally powered cars and trucks, they can reduce pollution and our nation's dependence on foreign oil.

    THE HONDA Civic Hybrid's standard equipment includes antilock brakes, side air bags and automatic climate control.

    THE FORD ESCAPE is the first gasoline-electric SUV. It can tow 1,000 pounds and has room for five passengers.

    THE AERODYNAMIC Toyota Prius uses special low rolling-resistance tires to maximize fuel efficiency.

    They typically combine a conventional, but small, gasoline engine with an electric motor and a large set of batteries. The electric motor supplements the gas engine's power for extra oomph when you hit the accelerator, and it doubles as a generator, recharging the batteries when you apply the brakes or the vehicle doesn't need all the engine's power, generally at idle, coasting or maintaining a steady speed.

    Because the generator recharges the batteries, a hybrid never needs to be plugged in. In fact none of the three vehicles in the test even has a plug.

    All three vehicles we tested also featured sophisticated and efficient continuously variable transmissions, which reduce weight and boost fuel economy.

    CVTs replace a traditional automatic transmission's fixed gear ratios with a steel band and two pulleys. That arrangement gives a CVT a broader operating range, which allows it to keep the engine running at its most efficient speed for more of the time than a conventional transmission. CVTs also weigh less than other transmissions because they have fewer parts. CVTs are available on a few gasoline-powered vehicles, including the Civic and Saturn Vue.

    Only two automakers currently sell hybrids. Honda has the hybrid-only Insight, a little two-seat runabout, and a hybrid version of its best-selling Civic compact. Toyota introduced a second-generation Prius last year. Ford will join them in August.

    Since most of us have never driven one - of the 16.7 million new cars and trucks sold in the United States last year, 47,566 were hybrids - we wanted to see how the three largest stacked up in a head-to-head comparison test.

    The hybrids we tested weren't cheap. The Prius we drove had a suggested retail price of $21,708 excluding destination charges. While Toyota likes to compare the Prius to a midsize Camry, it's really more comparable to a well-equipped Corolla compact that costs $15,580, excluding destination charges.

    The Civic cost $20,650, again excluding destination charges. That's about $2,300 more than a comparably equipped Civic with a standard four-cylinder engine.

    Ford has not announced prices for the hybrid Escape, but industry experts estimate a hybrid system adds around $2,500 to the truck's cost. Since the Escape we tested was loaded with everything from leather upholstery to a satellite navigation system, it will probably sticker at more than $27,000.

    We wanted to know if the superior mileage they delivered was worth the cost (see accompanying story), and was obtained without giving up all sorts of creature comforts and utility. So the first thing we needed to know was how many miles these new vehicles could squeeze from a gallon of gas.

    If there has been some grumbling among hybrid owners, it's that the cars haven't delivered the mileage their makers and the EPA promised. By the end of our 12-hour test drive, we knew why.

    Of the 300 miles we drove, 176 were on city streets and 124 were on freeways. We would have come much closer to the EPA estimates for these vehicles if we had stayed off the freeways, because every time we hit the interstates, we hurt our mileage. And we figure that folks who are disappointed with their hybrids don't understand that.

    Most of us hop on and off the freeways all the time. We think our course was a conservative mix of street vs. freeway driving for many commuters. So while hybrids have been touted as the ultimate commuting car, they'll only live up to their billing if you keep off the freeways.

    If you buy a hybrid to hop on I-696 in Farmington Hills and drive to work in Warren every morning you are going to be frustrated at the gas pump.

    The main reason the hybrids get their highest fuel economy in stop-and-start city driving is that electronic engine controls stop the engine whenever the vehicle is idle for more than a few seconds. The engine restarts as soon as it's needed for acceleration. The Escape and Prius' electric motors have enough power to move the vehicles through slow urban traffic while the engine is off, further boosting fuel economy.

    Hybrids also benefit from the frequent use of the brakes in city driving, because the electric motor turns into a generator, recapturing some of the energy that would otherwise be lost when the vehicle slows down.

    There is a noticeable difference in driving a hybrid.

    A couple of test drivers found the engine shutoff disconcerting, reminding them of times when their old clunkers died on them. Several also thought the Escape's automatic restart was more noticeable than the almost imperceptible Prius and Civic. The electric motors in the Escape and Prius have enough power to move the vehicles while the gasoline engine remains off, making them eerily like driving a golf cart, according to one tester.

    But overall, the powertrains worked fine in all three vehicles, and the quirks were easy to get used to.

    The consensus among our test drivers was that the Escape had the best acceleration despite being the biggest. Ford claims the combined output of the electric motor and 2.3-liter four-cylinder engine is roughly equivalent to the 3.0-liter 200-horsepower V6 engine that's an option on conventional Escapes.

    The Escape also scored highest on overall utility, with room for five passengers and a 1,000-pound towing capacity. The Civic delivered essentially the same room, comfort and performance as a conventional model.

    The Prius is the only one of the vehicles developed solely as a hybrid, and its swoopy profile, limited luggage capacity, gadgety controls and lightweight seats all demonstrate the compromises Toyota made to increase fuel economy and impress tech-smitten buyers.

    The Prius' interior room qualifies it as a midsize car by U.S. government standards, but its reduced usability caused J.D. Power and Associates to classify it as a compact in its quality studies.

    While the hybrid systems all did their job, we lost about an hour's driving time when the Escape's electric power steering system went AWOL.

    Fortunately for us, the first time it failed our convoy was on Michigan Avenue headed toward Ford headquarters.

    Faster than you can say "catastrophic failure," we wheeled into the circular drive in front of Ford's product development building, and a covey of engineers flew out the door, armed with laptop computers and hand tools.

    I'm guessing the labor charge would be about $5,000 an hour if you could get this kind of service at your neighborhood Ford dealership.

    An hour later, making a right turn was still about as much fun as arm-wrestling Ben Wallace, but the engineers knew what was wrong. A supplier had forgotten to plug an opening in an electrical connector, water had seeped in and the system had shorted out.

    Our truck was built in March and was still considered to be a test truck, not yet good enough to sell. Ford executives say they're working with the supplier. Reliability problems like that have undone new technologies in the past, and you can bet the lights are on late tonight in Dearborn to make sure that doesn't happen this time.

    Contact MARK PHELAN at 313-222-6731 or [email protected].
     
  2. Tempus

    Tempus Senior Member

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    Detroit FP Hybrid Payback Article

    http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/hybrid...3e_20040603.htm

    THE PAYBACK: EPA figures don't reflect real world

    June 3, 2004

    BY MARK PHELAN
    FREE PRESS AUTO CRITIC

    Hybrid gasoline-electric cars are the rage, but they don't appear to be the way to slash your gasoline costs.

    While vehicles like the Toyota Prius achieve excellent fuel economy, their owners expect more, with the surprising result that "Excessive fuel consumption" topped the list of complaints for hybrids in J.D. Power and Associates' influential quality survey last year.

    The problem is equal parts perception and reality. Many buyers see hybrids' gaudy EPA fuel economy ratings - 60 m.p.g. in city driving for the Prius, for example - and assume the car will cut their gas bill 50 percent or more.

    "Toyota has to manage customers' expectations," J.D. Power spokesman John Tews said. "A lot of consumers don't know they get better fuel economy in the city than on the highway, because that's so contrary to their experience."

    No vehicle on the road matches the mileage the EPA gets in its laboratory tests. The numbers are useful for comparing one vehicle to another, but they don't predict the mileage you'll actually get. In real-world driving, hybrid fuel economy is usually 20 to 25 percent below the EPA figure, worse if you drive most of your miles on the highway, where hybrids are least efficient.

    A recent study by Consumer Reports magazine predicted that it would take 12 years of gas savings at $2 a gallon to recoup the extra cost of a Civic Hybrid. That's considerably longer than most people own their car, making the hybrid system essentially money out of pocket for an option that made the driver feel good, but provided no genuine economic benefit.

    No automaker has disclosed the cost of its hybrid system, but the consensus is that they add around $2,400 to the sticker price.
     
  3. Tempus

    Tempus Senior Member

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    Detroit FP Hybrid Resale Article

    http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/hybrid...3e_20040603.htm

    Evolving technology affects resale value of hybrid autos

    June 3, 2004

    BY MARK PHELAN
    FREE PRESS AUTO CRITIC

    If you buy a hybrid today, how much will it be worth when you trade it in?

    Probably about as much as a comparable model from the same automaker, according to Edmunds.com, which tracks the prices for new and used vehicles.

    Any dramatic technical advance could change that, however.

    "The technology is evolving," said Mike Chung, Edmunds' pricing and market analyst. "That makes residual values volatile."

    The first hybrid gasoline-electric car went on sale just five years ago, but used hybrids have held their value well so far, he said.

    "Of course, they are Toyotas and Hondas, which generally hold their value pretty well. I'd be hesitant to say that if they were Fords or Chevrolets."

    Buyers are paying as much as $8,000 above sticker price for a new Toyota Prius, he said, and there's no way the car will maintain that value.

    "Prices will fall as more hybrids reach the market," Chung said. "That will probably also affect resale value for the cars' second owners."

    Toyota, Honda and Ford all offer an 8-year/100,000-mile warranty for the hybrids' batteries and motors, to reassure buyers that the expensive system will work. However, the parts have yet to demonstrate their durability in real-world conditions and no one knows how much they will cost to replace, or how available they will be years from now when the hybrids' warranty coverage expires.

    Hybrid technology is so new that it introduces several variables to the usually straightforward calculation of a car's resale value, said Joe Philippi, principal of AutoTrends Consulting in Short Hills, N.J.

    "The ultimate answer might be to lease the car, or at least the batteries," he mused. "That way the manufacturer assumes the risk" if the batteries or electric motor become obsolete more quickly than a conventional car.

    Contact MARK PHELAN at 313-222-6731 or [email protected].
     
  4. mdacmeis

    mdacmeis Member

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    I submitted the following letter to the author and editor:

    Regarding your article "MARK PHELAN: Cutting the hybrid hype

    They gulp less gas but the fuel savings are better for city drivers
    June 3, 2004

    BY MARK PHELAN
    FREE PRESS AUTO CRITIC"

    I am very confused. Your comments regarding the Toyota Prius, which I own, are not representative of my experience to date. You state "In separate tests that consisted of more highway driving, we got about 37 m.p.g. in the Prius and Civic, and 25 m.p.g. in the Escape." How did you achieve this? I drive 48 miles twice each day on I-75 and US-23. With the cruise control set at 75 MPH most of the way, I get 48 MPG average for the trip, consistent with what others report in forums such as Priuschat.com. You also state "THE AERODYNAMIC Toyota Prius uses special low rolling-resistance tires to maximize fuel efficiency." For your information, the 2004 Prius comes with Goodyear Integrity tires, which are not low rolling resistance. You also state "CVTs replace a traditional automatic transmission's fixed gear ratios with a steel band and two pulleys." This is not how the Toyota Prius CVT, a planetary gear configuration, works, which is well documented.

    Next you state "A couple of test drivers found the engine shutoff disconcerting, reminding them of times when their old clunkers died on them." This is a problem. You are comfortable with the past and cannot move on. How will you tolerate the new GM mild hybrid pickups? Other new technology? Perhaps your drivers should use horses and buggies instead? Next you state " The Prius is the only one of the vehicles developed solely as a hybrid, and its swoopy profile, limited luggage capacity, gadgety controls and lightweight seats all demonstrate the compromises Toyota made to increase fuel economy and impress tech-smitten buyers." To this I note that you did not make the same comments about the Cadillac CTS controls, which are more confusing and complex to use. I find the Prius controls layout better and of higher use than most vehicles. The luggage and interior capacity is about the same as my previous Grand Prix, and the seats offer better support than almost any GM car, and I have driven over 100 of them in the last 20 years. The look of the vehicle may be unique, but so is the Cadillac CTS and many other vehicles today. Are you suggesting a Hummer looks "normal?" A PT Cruiser? Should all vehicles really look the same? You have been highly critical of this in the past, but now you complain when a vehicle looks a bit different from others? Does this really make any sense?

    Finally, I don't understand your objective. You seem to be out to discredit the hybrid vehicles, yet offer no comparative proof of other vehicle's performance under the same conditions. You imply that typical GM or Ford vehicles would deliver EPA type fuel economy numbers, yet you know all to well these vehicles would have been similarly below the EPA rated fuel economy on a percentage basis. Do you believe a non-hybrid Escape would deliver anything close to 33 mpg? You also attempt to prove that hybrids cost more. I will only challenge you to find a similarly equipped vehicle from GM for $25,000. When compared to a Prius with option package #9, you are out of luck. The Prius may be the best value out there when comparing content versus price. I know. I looked for 9 months. As a result, I bought a Prius, love the car, and have $70.00 in my pocket as a result of gas savings to date versus a similarly equipped GM vehicle at nearly $40,000 after only 1300 miles. Independent analysis shows the Prius will save money when compared to similar vehicles after about 34,000 miles. The simple fact that my new Prius delivers on average 24 MPG MORE than my previous vehicle should speak for itself. The reality that I had to give up nothing in comfort or content to get this kind of performance is remarkable.

    Your article is full of factual inaccuracies, unobjective opinions, and appears heavily biased. You may be able to fool some of your readers such that they really believe this was an objective comparison, but I doubt you will fool many engineers. Not his one at least. I have data (attached). And as a result, since if you taint one article I have to believe you are misleading us with your other "objective" vehicle evaluations, you have just lost a newsstand customer.

    signed......