Time to cut Detroit a break

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by JackDodge, Aug 12, 2008.

  1. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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  2. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Of course it hasn't. But that is because they don't produce that many.
    This year they could have sold twice as many IF they had them available.
    The domestics can't match the fuel efficiency of the Prius.
    When they can compete with the best fuel efficiency, I will take a look at one (what ever it may be).
     
  3. McShemp

    McShemp New Member

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    How many people does GM believe will be purchasing a $72k hybrid Escalade just to get 20/21 mpgs?
     
  4. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    I'm thinking they are chasing some of the Lexus LS hybrid customers who are forking out $104,900 to get a sedan that gets 20/22.
     
  5. mingoglia

    mingoglia Member

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    The Escalade's never really appealed to me but if they did I'd consider paying it for a fullsize luxury SUV. I was very very close to spending about that on a diesel GL series. To me it would be worth about $65k though so they'd have to come down a bit on the price.

    Granted at that mpg I wouldn't drive it nearly as much as my Prius but on the trips where I want to haul the family as well as my Jeep or quads on a large trailer up north I'd use it much like I used my Navigator. Other times, it would most likely sit.

    Here's the GL series for those that don't know what it is:

    [​IMG]
     
  6. FBear

    FBear Senior Member

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    Talk, talk, talk thats all GM does, their line up is still a joke and they promise the Volt by 2010 but at what price? They still have a predominance of lower mileage vehicles. GM has a few low end vehicles that are in the 30 mpg range the rest are in the 20-25 range nothing that competes competantly with say the 4 cylinder Camry or the 4 cylinder Honda Accord. GM's line up of cars, is as far as I'm concerned in this day and age a joke when it comes to gas mileage.
     
  7. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I see no reason to cut Detroit or any other domestic manufacturer a "break" or to help our economy. Once you filter out all the bulls*** Patriotic appeals, the simple fact is that domestic companies (Automotive, industrial, chemical, petrochemical, pharma, etc etc) can and DO outsource every chance they get

    Although domestic companies pretend to "support" local jobs and local business, they could give one s*** about that. As long as the various CEO's and Board of Directors have their gold-plated renumeration and bailout packages, that is all that counts. I think "backstabbing" applies here

    Since I had to bust my hump and work for everything I have, I really see no need to support unions, big business, etc, as they certainly didn't give one s*** about me. I had a job for about 4 months at a Union shop, before I joined the Army. The only way to advance there was Seniority, and if you tried working harder, you were put down on the spot

    I've never seen any sense in rewarding semi-illiterate laborers with salaries once reserved for professionals. True enough, my income is a vague dream, compared to most Union laborer positions. That took 20 years of hard work, +12 hour days, no vacations, constant skills upgrading, and several university degrees

    As far as purchasing products, parents of a guy I went through the Army and university with, recently purchased a Hyundai Sonata. After having a string of bad luck with various GM, Ford, and DC products, they said Screw It and got the Hyundai. Very happy with it too, priced lower than a comparable Honda or Toyota

    So when you have people who used to only buy American, suddenly jumping ship, that is a bad sign for domestic car makers. I'll agree that if you want a full size pickup or SUV, the Big Three lead.

    If you want a decent fuel efficient small to midsize car, they come up short. Which is odd, because GM can hold its own in Europe, so can Ford. Yet here in North America, they appear brain dead
     
  8. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    2009 Chevy Malibu 4cyl 22/33
    2009 Toyota Camry 4cyl 21/31

    Is that competitive enough for you?
     
  9. JackDodge

    JackDodge Gold Member

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    no, like qbee I live in Detroit 3 country and have no desire to see them go out of business. Things are so bad around here that I want to give them some business but I just got my HiHy less than a year ago and would lose money big time on trading it in so I'm pretty much stuck with what I have.

    You have to be careful reading too much in to text because you can't see emotion in it unless it's fairly dripping. I also don't reference Business Week articles with sarcasm in mind. Their articles are always well-balanced, articulate and their viewpoints make me think which is why I share them with everyone.
     
  10. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    I have spent some time in Detroit this summer and the area is certainly in bad shape. If i was a gambler it might be a good time to buy a bunch of houses at 40-50 cents on the dollar. It is very sad what is happening to this country, Detroit is just a compacted view.
    I wish I saw a light at the end of the tunnel but I don't think we are even close to hitting bottom economically.
     
  11. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Well, you only get the 33mpg when you get the LTZ package for about $26,000. However, the 30mpg (hwy, for the base model Malibu) isn't shabby compared to the Camry.
    Of course, next to the $22k Prius, it really is lacking:)
    Improvement is good though. They are getting better, the question is when will they tie for best?
     
  12. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    Actually the Malibu is available in LT and LTZ trim with the 6-speed and comes in with a sticker as low as $22,990.
     
  13. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Right, it does. But to get the 33mpg (hwy) you mentioned you have to get the LTZ. The LT is only 31mpg.
    Again, it is close enough that I would say they are both equivalent to the Camry in terms of fuel efficiency. Unfortunately neither come close to the Prius.

    This isn't just me not liking GM (I loved my Saturn:)). This is just me stating that in my opinion GM needs to beat the best Toyota has to offer in terms of fuel efficiency as the spike in gasoline prices was not the first time that has happened and won't be the last.
    Each time it happens, GM looses some customers. If it happens to many times, they won't have enough left to support much of any type of business.
    I want them to do better, and I want them to beat the pants off Toyota. Unfortunately I don't see it happening, but I can hope.
     
  14. ctbering

    ctbering Rambling Man

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    My goodness people have short memories. GM introduced its newest auto division in the 1990's. Saturn was 'marketed' to compete with the japanese autos. The buying experience was like CAR MAX and the car building process was designed from Japan's model. What did we get? Another bad american car with parts replacement that was somewhat better than the Yugo experience.
    I agree with some of the people that post that we will be better off with the Big 3 competing with the foreign auto makers by building quality cars. But how do you trust american auto companies that turn their back on the hybrid technology for years and then purchase Toyota's older but effective technology and use it in gas guzzling SUV's and pick up trucks? Maybe apple pie and Chevrolet jingle floats your boat but I call that SH _ T for Brains thinking. This is the kind of brain trust that has ruled the Big 3 for 30 + years....and really more like 100 years (when there was no competition).
     
  15. FBear

    FBear Senior Member

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    I've test driven the alleged competition that you provided. The four cylinder in the Malibu is worthy of a cement mixer, & it shifts like a 1950's automatic when pressed. The Camry's engine sounds like a Swiss watch in comparison and it has a five speed automatic standard that shifts smoothly. Something the GM engineers are still working on. When the American manufacturers produce something worthy of buying I will consider it, but until then I will stick with my Prius (which nothing made by the "Big 3" comes close to in economy or reliability).
     
  16. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    Nice try, if you really drove the malibu you would know better.
     
  17. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    I appreciate your post. On the malibu though you can get the 33mpg 6speed in the LT package, how many do you want?
     
  18. ctbering

    ctbering Rambling Man

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    Geez man, way don't you post your dealership and phone number?
     
  19. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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  20. go4less

    go4less New Member

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    I would like nothing better then to buy an American car (I am Canadian). I have purchased at least 10 in my history of driving back when I had more money then brains and traded way to often. But the last 9 years I drove my Acura and have been in the services dept less in nine years then in 2 yrs of each American car I owned. The more cars that Toyota sells in Canada and the States then the more plants they will open here and the more jobs for us all. Maybe the CEO of Toyota will not spend his millions in our countries but I don't recall getting a Christmas card from The CEO's of the big three! My Prius is due in next week and I got more for my Acura trade in then I would for an American Car 4 years newer and 100,000 less km.
     
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