Tire Upgrade

dixon · Oct 23, 2009

nyprius said: ↑

Iâ€™ve benefited greatly from the experience of others on Priuschat and therefore wanted to share my experience and research related to choosing a replacement for the Prius US OEM tire (Goodyear Integrity 185/65R15). My OEM tires had 25,000 miles on them with some tread left. But Iâ€™ve had bad experiences with them. So I wanted to upgrade. Iâ€™ve gone sliding on the snow with nearly no control. The tires are very scary in heavy rain on the highway. The car gets blown around and wanders on the highway. And it feels like it doesnâ€™t hold the road well on turns. The Integrity is an OK basic tire. But as many others on PC have said, upgrading it will lead to vast improvements in handling.

When I looked on PC for tire recommendations, many tires were suggested, but three seemed to be recommended the most â€“ Michelin Hydroedge (HE), Goodyear Comfortred (CT) and Goodyear Tripletred (TT). The TT was rated the best all season passenger car tire by Consumer Reports and Tirerack. I didnâ€™t fully trust the opinions given on Tirerack and other self-entered tire opinion sites, such as epinions and 1010tires. On these sites, owners give opinions with little frame of reference other than the previous tires on the same car. These would have been worn down, so almost any new tire would feel better. More importantly, marketing people for the tire companies can enter good ratings on the sites. I have no proof that this occurred, but if you read the opinions given on the above sites, youâ€™ll see many were almost certainly written by tire marketing people, since no one would talk about tires this way in the real world.

While the tests of Consumer Reports arenâ€™t perfect, at least theyâ€™re unbiased (I hope). Tires are compared to peers on the same tests and cars. After looking at many tires, I preferred the TT. Of course, this is a personal opinion. The CT and HE are both great tires. As noted by others, they work well on the Prius. But given all the tests and opinions (even assuming many were from Goodyear), I was leaning toward the TT.

The problem was it didnâ€™t come in the OEM size. I originally had a strong preference for sticking with the OEM size. However, as I researched it, I saw that Europe, Australia and Japan (where the Prius is designed and built) use a 195 width tire. The Prius is designed for a 195, not a 185 tire. I assume the US got a cheaper tire to keep costs down, in the same way we got rear drum brakes, while most other places get rear disk brakes. Alternatively, knowing the US appetite for more and better things, the US Prius may have been intentionally dumbed down (ie: narrow tires, rear drum brakes, front seats with no height adjustment, etc) so future Priusâ€™s could be easily spruced up, thus prompting turnover among Prius owners who want the best.

Further evidence that the Prius is designed for 195 tires is the fact that the 2007 Prius will be offered with 195 tires in some option packages. (It is extremely unlikely that Toyota makes smaller wheel wells for the 185 tires. All Prius wheel wells probably are the same around the world.) Following an 04-06 US Prius on the highway, it looks like the car has bicycle tires. If you review the specs, very few cars of the Priusâ€™s size and weight use 185 tires. 185â€™s are usually used on smaller cars. Given all this, I decided thereâ€™s no way Iâ€™m putting undersized 185 tires on the car again.

The problem with the 195 is tire height. If I wanted to change rims and go with a 195/55R16 (the tire used in Japan and Europe) I could get nearly the same revolutions per mile as the US OEM tire (855), which means speedometer/odometer readings and ground clearance would remain the same. But I didnâ€™t think it was necessary to change the rims. 6â€ wide rims, such as those on the Prius, can handle up to a 225 width tire.

In the 195, I looked at the 195/60R15 and the 195/65R15. The 195/60 has 863 RPM (.9% higher than the US OEM). The 195/65 has 836 RPM (2.2% lower than US OEM). According to others on PC, the Prius speedometer over-reads by 1-2 mph (ie: it says youâ€™re doing 60 when youâ€™re really doing 58 or 59 mph). The 195/60 has less than half the distortion of the 195/65. It would increase the over-read by less than 1%, whereas the 195/65 would reduce over-read by more than 2%, possibly resulting in under-read (a more risky condition). Personally, I donâ€™t mind a little over-read. It helps to minimize speeding tickets. The radius of the 195/60 is .325 cm less than the 185/65 (about one eighth of an inch). So ground clearance wonâ€™t be affected significantly. (The 195/60 tire is .65 cm shorter than the 185/65, but the car would only be .325 cm lower.)

I also considered a 205 width tire. There appears to be plenty of room for this on the Prius. Others have reported that the 205 works fine on the Prius. If you turn the wheel all the way to one side and run your hand around the interior sides of both front tires (US OEM 185), youâ€™ll see thereâ€™s more than an inch between the tire and all points in the wheel well. A 205 is .3â€ wider than the true Prius OEM tire (195). This means it would extend .15â€ beyond the designed tire width toward the interior side, which is no problem. A 215 would probably work too. I considered the 205/60 because it has 846 RPM, (1% lower than OEM). This would partially correct speedometer over-read and give about .1â€ more ground clearance than the 185/65 US OEM tire.

I probably would have gone with the 205, but I noticed the tread width on the 195/60 TT and 205/60 TT are the same (6.4â€). Therefore the wider tire would not give me wider contact at the road surface. I decided to go with the 195/60R15 TT because I felt the slightly lower tire would give me better cornering and less wind resistance. I felt the 1/8â€ less ground clearance (compared to the US OEM) and slightly higher speedometer over-read were not significant.

Also, while it seemed certain the 205 would work in the Prius wheel wells, I felt a little uncomfortable going beyond the â€œrealâ€ OEM width (195). Fortunately, the 195/60 TT gave me the best of both worlds. I got the wider tread without having to go with the wider tire. In terms of road contact, the 6.4â€ tread width of the 195/60 TT compares to 5.7â€ for the 185/65 CT. The HE tread width is not listed but is probably about the same as the CT. This indicates the TT will corner better with little, if any, mpg loss, as reported by others on PC who are using the 195/60 TT.

I put the 195/60 TTâ€™s on a week ago. On dry pavement, the car sticks to the road like glue. The car seemed to be as stable in sharp turns as when going straight. I just got back from a 400 mile trip mostly in the pouring rain in Massachusetts and Vermont. Much was on route 2 in MA. A narrow 4 and 2 lane fast moving highway with lots of construction. On the US OEM tires, I would have felt like I had no margin of safety when driving at 65 in the rain on this road. I often gave up on trying to pass someone with the old tires since the car felt too unstable. With the new tires, the very wet road usually felt like a dry road. I felt I had a wide margin of safety â€“ that I wasnâ€™t anywhere near losing control. The car felt stable going through deep puddles too. No hydroplaning.

It was the same on the 2 lane Vermont 50 mph highways. I was cruising at 60-65 on windy country roads often in heavy rain. The car again felt very stable and safe. I also got over 50 mpg for the first time ever in my car. In the summer, I get 45-47 on the type of drive I did this weekend. This time I got 52 mpg. I was surprised. Part of the reason might be the .9% over-read on the speedometer/odometer due to the 195/60 tires (ie: when the odo says the car went 100 miles, it only went about 99).

Bottom line: The US OEM tire is poor quality and not the right size for the Prius. Putting good 195/60R15 or 205/60R15 tires on the car is an easy and relatively inexpensive way to greatly improve the performance and safety of the Prius, with little or no mpg loss. The car looks a lot better with the 195/60 TT too. The 195/60 is .4â€ wider than the 185/65. This is noticeable. It makes the car look more stable and solid. This is the way the car was designed to look.
Click to expand...

Very impressed by all your research. I have a 2004 Prius with 75K miles and have now missed twice on replacement tires! The OEM tires got me only 31K, Pirelli P3000's decreased MPG dramatically so switched to Goodyear Assurances CT but only got 33K. Now have to try again and would like to get it right.

Wonder if you're still happy with the 195/60R15 size and the Goodyear TT as a choice? Also, any feedback on Cooper GFE's, a new LRR tire made in both the 185/65 and 195/65 sizes?

Many thanks for update, Dixon

dixon · Oct 23, 2009

Very impressed by all your research. I have a 2004 Prius with 75K miles and have now missed twice on replacement tires! The OEM tires got me only 31K, Pirelli P3000's decreased MPG dramatically so switched to Goodyear Assurances CT but only got 33K. Now have to try again and would like to get it right.

Wonder if you're still happy with the 195/60R15 size and the Goodyear TT as a choice? Also, any feedback on Cooper GFE's, a new LRR tire made in both the 185/65 and 195/65 sizes?

Many thanks for update, Dixon

nyprius · Nov 16, 2009

Hi Dixon,

Thanks for your feedback!

on the previous page of this tread, I mentioned that I replaced the 195/60 TT's with 205/60 Toyo Extensas.

The 195/60 TT's are excellent tires. But they became noisy. I also had a slight pull to the left that couldn't be fixed with alignment. I couldn't confirm if the tires were causing the problem since you can't rotate directional tires to the other side of the car without taking them off the rims.

So I got symmetrical, non-directional tires. As noted, the extensas are excellent. Very quiet and smooth ride. They handle well too. The TT's probably handled a little better on dry pavement. But I'm glad to give up a tiny bit of handling to get a much nicer ride.

The 205/60 probably partly improves the ride. The taller tires provide more cushioning on bumps. The 205/60's look great on the car too.

Wonder if you're still happy with the 195/60R15 size and the Goodyear TT as a choice? Also, any feedback on Cooper GFE's, a new LRR tire made in both the 185/65 and 195/65 sizes?

Many thanks for update, Dixon[/QUOTE]

Stringmike · Jan 3, 2010

Based largely on your original post, we opted to replace our OEM tires on my wife's 2006 Prius (at the 49,000 mile point) with 195/60/15 Michelin MXV4 Primacy. We don't see snow or much rain in Arizona, so we were mostly interested in improved handling and noise in the dry. Costco (my usual tire store) refused to install the larger tires, so we bought from Discount Tire.

I have to say the difference in quietness, handling and road feel was astonishing - it's almost like a different car. The thumps and rumbles of the old tires have substantially gone and directional control on the freeway is much superior - we've lost that wandering feeling!

Fuel economy has taken a slight hit. The long-term average (spring through winter) has been around 51 mpg on the computer - about 50 in real terms. After a tank and a half, we are currently showing about 46 mpg. Some of this is no doubt the winter conditions. Tire pressures are currently factory, and I plan to raise them to 40/38.

Since most mileage of the car is on a 35-mile freeway commute, we expect no significant overall fuel impact, since the tires reportedly do a bit better under these conditions than stop/go driving.

Thanks for your research and original post - keep up the good work!

Mike

Boo · Jan 3, 2010

Stringmike said: ↑

Based largely on your original post, we opted to replace our OEM tires on my wife's 2006 Prius (at the 49,000 mile point) with 195/60/15 Michelin MXV4 Primacy. We don't see snow or much rain in Arizona, so we were mostly interested in improved handling and noise in the dry. Costco (my usual tire store) refused to install the larger tires, so we bought from Discount Tire.

I have to say the difference in quietness, handling and road feel was astonishing - it's almost like a different car. The thumps and rumbles of the old tires have substantially gone and directional control on the freeway is much superior - we've lost that wandering feeling!

Fuel economy has taken a slight hit. The long-term average (spring through winter) has been around 51 mpg on the computer - about 50 in real terms. After a tank and a half, we are currently showing about 46 mpg. Some of this is no doubt the winter conditions. Tire pressures are currently factory, and I plan to raise them to 40/38.

Since most mileage of the car is on a 35-mile freeway commute, we expect no significant overall fuel impact, since the tires reportedly do a bit better under these conditions than stop/go driving.

Thanks for your research and original post - keep up the good work!

Mike
Click to expand...

Hi Mike,

My bet is that after the Michelin Primacy MXV4's have gone a few thousand miles, the decline in gas mileage will be nominal (no more than 1 mpg).

This is because the Primacy MXV4's have excellent rolling resistance like the stock Integrities. So I think that in the long run, any loss in mpg will be due solely to the 10 mm wider treadwidth, and therefore should be nominal.

BTW, in Consumer Reports November 2009 issue, the Michelin Primacy MXV4 is the highest rated performance all-season (H speed rating) tire:

Consumer_Reports_Nov._2009_Tire_Tests-1.doc

Stringmike · Jan 3, 2010

Yes, we expect some improvement in fuel economy as the tires wear in and as the weather warms up - will report back after a few more tanks.

Even if fuel economy never increased beyond the present 46 mpg, we would still be happy since the driving experience is so much enhanced. My expectation, however, is that it will settle in to about 48 to 49.

We also noted the Consumer Reports article, which helped validate our decision.

Mike

Stringmike · Jan 5, 2010

Stringmike said: ↑

Yes, we expect some improvement in fuel economy as the tires wear in and as the weather warms up - will report back after a few more tanks.

Even if fuel economy never increased beyond the present 46 mpg, we would still be happy since the driving experience is so much enhanced. My expectation, however, is that it will settle in to about 48 to 49.

We also noted the Consumer Reports article, which helped validate our decision.

Mike
Click to expand...

Checked the new tires yesterday and found all four at 33 psi - increased to 39/37 with a notable reduction in rolling resistance and little change in feel or handling.

I wonder if anyone knows the Toyota recommended pressures for these tires in countries where they are a factory option?

Mike

don_chuwish · Jan 5, 2010

I have my Primacy MXV4s at 43/41 without noticing any impact to comfort. 44 is the max on the sidewall so I'll have to keep an eye on pressure with all the wide temperature fluctuations we've been getting (20's last month, almost 60 yesterday).

- D

liammr2 · Jan 5, 2010

nyprius said: ↑

Hi Dixon,

Thanks for your feedback!

on the previous page of this tread, I mentioned that I replaced the 195/60 TT's with 205/60 Toyo Extensas.

The 195/60 TT's are excellent tires. But they became noisy. I also had a slight pull to the left that couldn't be fixed with alignment. I couldn't confirm if the tires were causing the problem since you can't rotate directional tires to the other side of the car without taking them off the rims.

So I got symmetrical, non-directional tires. As noted, the extensas are excellent. Very quiet and smooth ride. They handle well too. The TT's probably handled a little better on dry pavement. But I'm glad to give up a tiny bit of handling to get a much nicer ride.

The 205/60 probably partly improves the ride. The taller tires provide more cushioning on bumps. The 205/60's look great on the car too.

Wonder if you're still happy with the 195/60R15 size and the Goodyear TT as a choice? Also, any feedback on Cooper GFE's, a new LRR tire made in both the 185/65 and 195/65 sizes?

Many thanks for update, Dixon
Click to expand...

Hi

Do you have the 205/60s on the stock Prius wheels?

Thank you
Cheers, Liam

artisticannie · Jan 6, 2010

nyprius said: ↑

Iâ€™ve benefited greatly from the experience of others on Priuschat and therefore wanted to share my experience and research related to choosing a replacement for the Prius US OEM tire (Goodyear Integrity 185/65R15). My OEM tires had 25,000 miles on them with some tread left. But Iâ€™ve had bad experiences with them. So I wanted to upgrade. Iâ€™ve gone sliding on the snow with nearly no control. The tires are very scary in heavy rain on the highway. The car gets blown around and wanders on the highway. And it feels like it doesnâ€™t hold the road well on turns. The Integrity is an OK basic tire. But as many others on PC have said, upgrading it will lead to vast improvements in handling.

When I looked on PC for tire recommendations, many tires were suggested, but three seemed to be recommended the most â€“ Michelin Hydroedge (HE), Goodyear Comfortred (CT) and Goodyear Tripletred (TT). The TT was rated the best all season passenger car tire by Consumer Reports and Tirerack. I didnâ€™t fully trust the opinions given on Tirerack and other self-entered tire opinion sites, such as epinions and 1010tires. On these sites, owners give opinions with little frame of reference other than the previous tires on the same car. These would have been worn down, so almost any new tire would feel better. More importantly, marketing people for the tire companies can enter good ratings on the sites. I have no proof that this occurred, but if you read the opinions given on the above sites, youâ€™ll see many were almost certainly written by tire marketing people, since no one would talk about tires this way in the real world.

While the tests of Consumer Reports arenâ€™t perfect, at least theyâ€™re unbiased (I hope). Tires are compared to peers on the same tests and cars. After looking at many tires, I preferred the TT. Of course, this is a personal opinion. The CT and HE are both great tires. As noted by others, they work well on the Prius. But given all the tests and opinions (even assuming many were from Goodyear), I was leaning toward the TT.

The problem was it didnâ€™t come in the OEM size. I originally had a strong preference for sticking with the OEM size. However, as I researched it, I saw that Europe, Australia and Japan (where the Prius is designed and built) use a 195 width tire. The Prius is designed for a 195, not a 185 tire. I assume the US got a cheaper tire to keep costs down, in the same way we got rear drum brakes, while most other places get rear disk brakes. Alternatively, knowing the US appetite for more and better things, the US Prius may have been intentionally dumbed down (ie: narrow tires, rear drum brakes, front seats with no height adjustment, etc) so future Priusâ€™s could be easily spruced up, thus prompting turnover among Prius owners who want the best.

Further evidence that the Prius is designed for 195 tires is the fact that the 2007 Prius will be offered with 195 tires in some option packages. (It is extremely unlikely that Toyota makes smaller wheel wells for the 185 tires. All Prius wheel wells probably are the same around the world.) Following an 04-06 US Prius on the highway, it looks like the car has bicycle tires. If you review the specs, very few cars of the Priusâ€™s size and weight use 185 tires. 185â€™s are usually used on smaller cars. Given all this, I decided thereâ€™s no way Iâ€™m putting undersized 185 tires on the car again.

The problem with the 195 is tire height. If I wanted to change rims and go with a 195/55R16 (the tire used in Japan and Europe) I could get nearly the same revolutions per mile as the US OEM tire (855), which means speedometer/odometer readings and ground clearance would remain the same. But I didnâ€™t think it was necessary to change the rims. 6â€ wide rims, such as those on the Prius, can handle up to a 225 width tire.

In the 195, I looked at the 195/60R15 and the 195/65R15. The 195/60 has 863 RPM (.9% higher than the US OEM). The 195/65 has 836 RPM (2.2% lower than US OEM). According to others on PC, the Prius speedometer over-reads by 1-2 mph (ie: it says youâ€™re doing 60 when youâ€™re really doing 58 or 59 mph). The 195/60 has less than half the distortion of the 195/65. It would increase the over-read by less than 1%, whereas the 195/65 would reduce over-read by more than 2%, possibly resulting in under-read (a more risky condition). Personally, I donâ€™t mind a little over-read. It helps to minimize speeding tickets. The radius of the 195/60 is .325 cm less than the 185/65 (about one eighth of an inch). So ground clearance wonâ€™t be affected significantly. (The 195/60 tire is .65 cm shorter than the 185/65, but the car would only be .325 cm lower.)

I also considered a 205 width tire. There appears to be plenty of room for this on the Prius. Others have reported that the 205 works fine on the Prius. If you turn the wheel all the way to one side and run your hand around the interior sides of both front tires (US OEM 185), youâ€™ll see thereâ€™s more than an inch between the tire and all points in the wheel well. A 205 is .3â€ wider than the true Prius OEM tire (195). This means it would extend .15â€ beyond the designed tire width toward the interior side, which is no problem. A 215 would probably work too. I considered the 205/60 because it has 846 RPM, (1% lower than OEM). This would partially correct speedometer over-read and give about .1â€ more ground clearance than the 185/65 US OEM tire.

I probably would have gone with the 205, but I noticed the tread width on the 195/60 TT and 205/60 TT are the same (6.4â€). Therefore the wider tire would not give me wider contact at the road surface. I decided to go with the 195/60R15 TT because I felt the slightly lower tire would give me better cornering and less wind resistance. I felt the 1/8â€ less ground clearance (compared to the US OEM) and slightly higher speedometer over-read were not significant.

Also, while it seemed certain the 205 would work in the Prius wheel wells, I felt a little uncomfortable going beyond the â€œrealâ€ OEM width (195). Fortunately, the 195/60 TT gave me the best of both worlds. I got the wider tread without having to go with the wider tire. In terms of road contact, the 6.4â€ tread width of the 195/60 TT compares to 5.7â€ for the 185/65 CT. The HE tread width is not listed but is probably about the same as the CT. This indicates the TT will corner better with little, if any, mpg loss, as reported by others on PC who are using the 195/60 TT.

I put the 195/60 TTâ€™s on a week ago. On dry pavement, the car sticks to the road like glue. The car seemed to be as stable in sharp turns as when going straight. I just got back from a 400 mile trip mostly in the pouring rain in Massachusetts and Vermont. Much was on route 2 in MA. A narrow 4 and 2 lane fast moving highway with lots of construction. On the US OEM tires, I would have felt like I had no margin of safety when driving at 65 in the rain on this road. I often gave up on trying to pass someone with the old tires since the car felt too unstable. With the new tires, the very wet road usually felt like a dry road. I felt I had a wide margin of safety â€“ that I wasnâ€™t anywhere near losing control. The car felt stable going through deep puddles too. No hydroplaning.

It was the same on the 2 lane Vermont 50 mph highways. I was cruising at 60-65 on windy country roads often in heavy rain. The car again felt very stable and safe. I also got over 50 mpg for the first time ever in my car. In the summer, I get 45-47 on the type of drive I did this weekend. This time I got 52 mpg. I was surprised. Part of the reason might be the .9% over-read on the speedometer/odometer due to the 195/60 tires (ie: when the odo says the car went 100 miles, it only went about 99).

Bottom line: The US OEM tire is poor quality and not the right size for the Prius. Putting good 195/60R15 or 205/60R15 tires on the car is an easy and relatively inexpensive way to greatly improve the performance and safety of the Prius, with little or no mpg loss. The car looks a lot better with the 195/60 TT too. The 195/60 is .4â€ wider than the 185/65. This is noticeable. It makes the car look more stable and solid. This is the way the car was designed to look.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU NYPRIUS for the impressive research on tires for the prius. You've convinced me to switch to 195 tires!
I have a tire question for you. First the background. Here in the Rochester NY area we get blasted with a ton of snow and ice from canada and lake effect from Lake Ontario. I can not pull out of a parking lot this week without it being freshly plowed. The traction control kicks in and I'm stuck there with absolutely no power to pull out. I wind up backing up and trying another exit with less snow. I am definitely buying winter tires this week. Currently broke since christmas broke the bank and looking for a miracle. I may have found one. Craigs list has a guy selling 4 Nokian Hakkapeliitta 5 195/60 R15 studded tires which were used only one season (he bought a larger vehicle this season). He's asking $250. I've asked him for the date of manufacture. How old is too old to safely drive on? I know that these tires can dry rot after a number of years, sometimes from the inside out. What do you or someone else out there know about tire age?
Upon hearing from him, he may give me favorable news regarding age. I've read about them and they seem like my cup of tea. DOES ANYONE OUT THERE THINK I WILL GET TOO MUCH ROAD VIBRATION when the roads are dry this winter with these tires? I certainly do appreciate any experienced advice I might receive! Thanks ahead of time!

nyprius · Mar 16, 2010

Hi Liam,

The stock 6 inch Prius wheels can handle up to a 225 width tire. So it's no problem putting 205's on them.

I've had the 205/60R15 Toyo Extensa's on the car for over 5,000 miles and I'm very happy with the handling on all road surfaces, noise and comfort. Mileage might be 2 mpg lower. But I'm glad to make that trade off for better handling and comfort.

Cheers, Frank

liammr2 said: ↑

Hi

Do you have the 205/60s on the stock Prius wheels?

Thank you
Cheers, Liam
Click to expand...

nyprius · Mar 16, 2010

Putting snow tires on will make a big difference on snow and ice. Personally, I wouldn't put on studded tires unless you're on snow and ice most of the time.

There are many other threads about how bad the Prius is in the snow, especially when trying to go up slippery hills. The traction control stops the tires when it senses slippage. This is the last thing that should occur when trying to go up a hill. When the tires stop, the car often stops, momentum is lost and the car often cannot make it up the hill.

The Prius can be put into a service mode to override the TC. I do this sometimes if I see a slippery hill ahead or if I try and fail to make it up a hill. Most cars have limited slip or no slip. This allows drivers to maintain momentum when going up hills.

To override TC, stop the car, set to: ignition on ready light off, step on gas pedal three times, shift to neutral, step on gas pedal three times, shift to park, step on gas pedal three times. Warning lights come on. Set to: ready light on.

Tires will spin based on how much the gas pedal is pressed. The tires will not stop if slippage is sensed. This makes it easier to go up slippery hills since momentum can be maintained.

Be careful not to overspin or freely spin the wheels. Don't keep the car in this mode for longer than necessary. Once you're up the hill, shut off and restart the car. It will be back in normal mode.

It's probably best to only use this TC override service mode in emergency situations. Overspinning the wheels might damage the Prius. But the safety of drivers and passengers is more important than the safety of cars.

Apparently, Toyota installed something like a TC override on the Gen III Prius, probably because so many Prius owners complained about the Gen II TC creating dangerous situations (ie: slipping backwards down snowy hills, getting stuck when entering busy roads, etc).

artisticannie said: ↑

THANK YOU NYPRIUS for the impressive research on tires for the prius. You've convinced me to switch to 195 tires!
I have a tire question for you. First the background. Here in the Rochester NY area we get blasted with a ton of snow and ice from canada and lake effect from Lake Ontario. I can not pull out of a parking lot this week without it being freshly plowed. The traction control kicks in and I'm stuck there with absolutely no power to pull out. I wind up backing up and trying another exit with less snow. I am definitely buying winter tires this week. Currently broke since christmas broke the bank and looking for a miracle. I may have found one. Craigs list has a guy selling 4 Nokian Hakkapeliitta 5 195/60 R15 studded tires which were used only one season (he bought a larger vehicle this season). He's asking $250. I've asked him for the date of manufacture. How old is too old to safely drive on? I know that these tires can dry rot after a number of years, sometimes from the inside out. What do you or someone else out there know about tire age?
Upon hearing from him, he may give me favorable news regarding age. I've read about them and they seem like my cup of tea. DOES ANYONE OUT THERE THINK I WILL GET TOO MUCH ROAD VIBRATION when the roads are dry this winter with these tires? I certainly do appreciate any experienced advice I might receive! Thanks ahead of time!
Click to expand...

CatahoulaB · May 2, 2010

On my first tank with the Nokian WRG2's. So far it's a no brainer. Major difference right away. The decreased rolling resistance is palpable. Cornering is amazing. Again, so far seems like a no brainer on the touring model since the choices of tires in the correct size are so limited. 195/55/R16
Haven't set the tire pressures above what the dealer set them at so I'm expecting even better mileage increase.
Incidentally my local garage sold them for less than the on line guys listed in this post. Check pricing. The on line guys quoted me 160 with "free" shipping. My guy sold them for 138.
I'll update later. Can't wait to see how they do in the snow.

Elreq · May 23, 2010

so being a complete tire novice, who bows to nyprius at this point, could someone describe to me the benifits of why i would want a 185 or 225 or any in between?

i under stand the triple digit number is width of the tire... right?

and the double digit number is height of the wall... right. and the taller the wall the more smooth the ride if the tire brand and make are the same right?

so i just looked at the owners manual and it "explains" the numbers but could you answer the 2 questions what is the pro or con to changing the 3 digit number and what is the pro or con to changing the 2 digit number?

nyprius · Jun 9, 2010

Elreq said: ↑

so being a complete tire novice, who bows to nyprius at this point, could someone describe to me the benifits of why i would want a 185 or 225 or any in between?

i under stand the triple digit number is width of the tire... right?

and the double digit number is height of the wall... right. and the taller the wall the more smooth the ride if the tire brand and make are the same right?

so i just looked at the owners manual and it "explains" the numbers but could you answer the 2 questions what is the pro or con to changing the 3 digit number and what is the pro or con to changing the 2 digit number?
Click to expand...

The second number in tire sizes is the ratio of tire height to width. I don't know why they don't just put the height. When people order a 4x8 foot sheet of plywood, they don't say, may I have an 8 foot by 50 percent sheet please.

Re tire size, the key is upgrading from the Gen II OEM Integrity. Even if you stick with a 185/65R15, this will make a big difference. A wider, slightly lower tire, like the 195/60R15 will handle better. The height difference is minimal. So there should not be much of a difference in ride quality due to tire size. That would result more from tire type.

As noted above, after putting 195/60R15 TT's on the car, I upgraded to 205/60R15 Toyo Extensas. The 205/60R15 is a little higher than the OEM, but not enough to affect the speedometer significantly. Actually, it corrects overread and makes the speedo more accurate.

The 205/60 provides excellent handling since it's wider than the 185/65. It's also a little taller. That provides more ride comfort. I love the 205/60 Extensas. As noted, the TT's handled a little better on dry pavement. But the Extensas are much more quiet and comfortable. They're also better on snow and ice. Half way through the TT's, I knew I'd replace them with something else because they had become noisy and weren't working as well on snow as when they were new. Also, I wanted a non-directional, symmetrical tire. But I'm sure I'll put Extensas back on the car when they wear out.

luckyboy · Jun 11, 2010

For some reason I am finding the 195/65R15 CHEAPER than the 185/65R15, at costco for example for the Michelin-X the 195 is $10 cheaper. Any reason I should not go with the 195? I would think gas mileage might take a hit (I know it did on my jetta going from 185/65R14 to the 195). Also, I know costco can be picking about not wanting to install non-OEM tire sizes, but the 2010s seem to come stock with 195/65R15 for a body design that is not that different than my 2007.

vertex · Jun 13, 2010

I just bought Michelin Primacy 4MXV in 205/60R15. My limited observation is that gas mileage is about the same (only 1 tank, and had AC on and a full load). The spedometer is now right on +/- 1 MPG from my GPS. It used to be 3 MPH fast. I went with the 205 to get the best snow traction. I get better braking, and cornering too! Hopefully, no hit on gas mileage, time will tell!

alansanmateo · Jun 30, 2010

Wow, really great info.

Would you mind if I asked a specific question?

It is time to change the tires on our 2007 Prius, and we want to upgrade them. We are not as concerned about MPG as we are about safety and handling and the ride:. We are willing to take a hit on MPG, but we have no desire to spend $1000 to upgrade the wheels. (We have 15-inch wheels, now) We want a simple solution that will improve the ride, handling and safety of the car without upgrading the wheels. Also, we donâ€™t want the Prius to start â€œeatingâ€œ tires because the tire canâ€™t handle the weight of the Prius. We understand that the LRR tires have a higher weight rating (though they provide a mediocre ride).

Can you give us some suggestions?

One local tire place recommends the following, but I am concerned the ride will be no different than the current OE tires. But maybe that is the best I can hope for, anyway.
Continental Concept ecoplus â€“ 80,000 mile warranty, 600 count tread, $100 per tire
Or
Bridgestone Ecotopia â€“ 50,000 mile warranty, 400 count tread, $105 per tire.
The warranty applies if you rotate every 5,000 miles (rotation is free).
Also, $20 per tire to install and $4 per old tire to dispose.

I'llreview your post again and see if I can understand it!!

ps I live near San Francisco, so no worries about snow. But I want it to handle well in rain.

alansanmateo · Jul 1, 2010

As to the Toyos:

An auto shop where I live has said:

We would recommend 195-60-15"
Yokohama AS530
It would run $114.95 each installed
& alignment $99.95
I think the 205-60-15" would be too wide
& might rub

Thoughts anyone?????

alansanmateo · Jul 1, 2010

I am going with the Toyo Extenzas in the 205 size. If they rub, the tire place will put on a slightly smaller tire (the Eclipse from Toyo), which is supposed to be very similar.

Both tires, according to the tire guy, should give us a noticeably nicer ride than the stock tires without a big hit on mpg.

We will see.

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Tire Upgrade Review- Toyo Extensa A/S 205/60R15

Help ... Wheel Upgrade - Wider Tires and Bigger Wheels?

New 2008 Touring; IF I upgrade tires, P195 or P205???

Touring Edition Tire Upgrade

Prius Tire Upgrades