TOYO oil filter : larger 90915 - YZZF1 : any users ?

I had some left over 2001 RAV4 oil filters, so I used them. They fit fine but are bit longer.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ May 22 2007, 03:26 AM) [snapback]447198[/snapback]</div>

I personally think that is a really bad idea. Just because an oil filter fits on your car does not mean that it is the correct oil filter. Besides the filter media, two of the main components in an oil filter are the anti-drainback and bypass valves. These components are engineered for specific applications, so not using a filter designed for your particular car can decrease the performance of the filter to the point at which no oil is being circulated through the filter at all.

An engines oil pump pumps motor oil from the oil sump to the oil filter. Dirty oil passes through the oil filter media, where it is cleaned before flowing to the central tube and back into the engine through the mounting stud. Oil is then distributed by oil passages throughout the engine. So, if you are using a filter with a bypass valve that is designed to open under a certain amount of oil pressure, and your particular engine does not produce that level of pressure, then the bypass valve will not work. Obviously, this is not a good thing.

So, be careful and make sure that the filters you are using are truly compatible.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ May 22 2007, 06:31 AM) [snapback]447217[/snapback]</div>

On what do you base these statements? Toyota essentially uses all of four different filter designs to cover all of their engines. They all have the same thread base. The only difference is diameter and length. Are none of these filters interchangeable because each has a different tension on the drainback spring and bypass valve?

Frankly, it looks more to me like all Toyota filters have identical internal mechanical components and the only reason they're of different lengths and diameters is due soley to production considerations during installation on the assembly line. I suspect that using a filter of a slightly longer length to improve accessability and slight capacity is not going to create any problems.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rudiger @ May 22 2007, 08:42 AM) [snapback]447240[/snapback]</div>

It's your car, so do as you please. :huh:

I base my statements on a sound fundamental understanding of how oil filters work. As I said, not all bypass and anti-drainback valves are designed to operate at the same pressure. By using a different filter than the one that Toyota specified, you could risk not having the valves operate properly. Aftermarket filters that are a direct replacement are made to the same specs, so this isn't a problem if you go that route. When you can have a problem is when you use a filter that fits, but has different internal valves.

And, just because the internal components look the same doesn't necessarily mean that they are the same. The valves may have different springs in them, which is what ultimately controls the flow of the oil through the filter. The simple fact of the matter is that you don't know for sure that they are the same and I don't know that they aren't. I tend to operate under an abundance of caution in these areas as the potential for costly repairs isn't worth the gamble for me to use something that just happens to fit. Again, each to his own. I just wouldn't do this with my car.

Also, if for some reason you used a Toyota filter that was not the filter they specified for the Prius and the filter was determined to be the culprit of a failure, you would ultimately be responsible for the cost of those repairs, as Toyota could reject a warranty claim under the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act. I am not saying that this is going to happen, but merely that it could. However, they would have to prove that the incorrect filter was what caused the damage. Just something to keep in mind.

 

Swanny1172,

You are incorrect. The 90915-YZZA1 filter will work just fine on the Prius. Many times manufactures change oil filter designs so they can charge more, not because the filter won't work correctly or can damage the engine. Toyota made the filter smaller because they feel the Prius engine doesn't need as much filtering. This reduces their cost to manufacture them because they are smaller allowing Toyota to keep the filter price the same and making a higher profit.

Any anti-drainback property is pointless in this oil filter for the Prius as the filter sits vertically, not horizontally. So you don't even need a drainback designed filter. With that in mind the next thing to consider is size of the filter and filtering ability. A bigger size filters more oil. The filtering media is the same Toyota uses in all their vehicles, so that has not changed. By using the 90915-YZZA1 filter I have increased the filtering ability slightly....this is a good thing. This filter is only about an inch or so longer than the OEM Prius oil filter. I even cut one open and they are identicle inside. This filter doesn't even change the Prius oil pressure.


Here are some more thoughts confirming the 90915-YZZA1 is internally the same filter:

http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=3...mp;#entry439704

 

If that is the case, then why didn't Toyota just spec that filter for the Prius? They must have had a reason.

Like I said, it is your car...

 

Because that much filtering isn't needed for the smaller engine of the Prius and it costs them less to make a Prius filter they can sell for the same price as their other filters.

Better filtering doesn't hurt an engine, in fact it will help an engine. As long as it doesn't effect the oil pressure. I have used double filter aftermarket systems in vehicles before without any loss of oil pressure.

Some facts:

The Honda Insight oil filter is only 2 1/2 inches tall, making it one small oil filter.

The 90915-10003 Toyota Prius filter is 3 inches tall. The 90915-YZZA1 Toyota RAV4 filter is 3 1/2 inches tall. So I stand corrected, the YZZA1 filter is ony 1/2 inch longer than the Prius OEM filter.

The 1996 Corvette PF52 oil filter is 5 inches tall. The 2003 Corvette PF46 oil filter is only 3 1/2 inches tall. The 03 Corvette engine has more horsepower, even though both are the same size engines. So why the smaller oil filter? Because GM realized they didn't need as large of a filter to do a good job and could sell a smaller filter for the same or more money.


As engine and oil technology has improved, manufactures realized they have been over designing oil filters in size. To save money they have rethought what is actually needed, not necessarily what is best. It is a trade off between cost and function. But there is no doubt using a larger filter media (taller filter), allows for longer replacement periods because it can clean a larger volume of oil before becoming dirty. This is important for those that frequently forget to change their oil on time.

So again......using the 90915-YZZA1 filter will NOT hurt the Prius. In fact it will filter more oil due to its larger capacity. When I use my last YZZA1 filter I will get the Prius OEM version, but since I had the YZZA1's I didn't want them to go to waste.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ May 23 2007, 08:20 PM) [snapback]448594[/snapback]</div>

Oh yeah, I'm sure one of the bean counters in the finance department at Toyota cooked up some scheme to sell smaller filters for the same price as the larger ones. That must be what made them the largest and most profitable automaker in the world. Thanks for pointing that out, because I would have never thought of that. <_<

 

I don't think you read my whole post.

Cost is a major factor in producing an automobile. Why do you think the Prius glove box doesn't have a lock or light switch? Every little bit makes a difference in the big picture for profit.

But you can believe what you want.

 

If cost was such a factor, then why doesn't Toyota have just one filter to fit every application? It would be much more cost effective to produce just one filter.

Of course the reason that they don't do that is because different applications have different filtration requirements.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ May 23 2007, 06:09 PM) [snapback]448633[/snapback]</div>

Yes it would but since they don't product just one size engine for all their vehicles that is not possible now is it.

I bet you will see other vehicles with similarly matched engines as the Prius, use the OEM Prius oil filter.

There is a greater risk for problems using a smaller oil filter than OEM, but using a larger oil filter than OEM (as long as it doesn't effect oil pressure) causes no harm.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ May 23 2007, 09:14 PM) [snapback]448638[/snapback]</div>

Here is a picture of two seemingly identical Toyota filters (Toyota 90915-10004 Oil Filter vs. Toyota 90915-YZZF1 Oil Filter) which shows that they are not the same internally:

 

Seemly is right, as I can't see the part numbers. We weren't talking about the Toyota 90915-10004 Oil Filter and the Toyota 90915-YZZF1 Oil Filter.

But regardless, the only thing that matters is the inlet/outlet opening size and filter media. Toyota has changed internal components on filters while keeping the same part numbers before you know.

 

90915-10004




90915-YZZF1




According to some discussion about the differences on Bob is the Oil Guy, the oil filters that Toyota puts on the Prius at the factory have a sponge-like media versus the replacements that they sell which have a standard paper media. The factory filters are made in Japan and the replcement OEM filers are made in Thailand. Toyota has cross-referenced the part numbers in such a way that searching for the original part will result in the replacement part. So, you have different suppliers making what is supposed to be the exact same filter that are using totally different media.

All of this reaffirms my choice of a Mobil 1 filter!

 

But again we weren't talking about those oil filters. Paper is a better filter than sponge, the same goes for air filters.

 

Were we not talking about the 90915-YZZF1???

 

Sorry my mistake, had it confused with the YZZA1 I was talking about in another thread.

 

Another reason for different filter sizes is space constraints for service. My GM mini-van specs a PF-47 filter but the same engine uses a longer PF-51 on other chassis. Difference is that some mini-van engines use a oil cooler which is attached at the oil filter flange. If the longer PF-51 were used, if you could get it on, you probably couldn't get it off, hence the use of the shorter PF-47.

As you go up in engine size, aside from needed filtering capacities there is the question as to access for filter changes. The NZ series engine in another Toyota probably has a tight clearance and required a filter just shorter than the YZZF1, hence the YZZF2. Toyota just kept using the same filter for all vehicles using the same engine series. They are identical filters for anti-drainback and bypass opening pressures. And as you have shown there is difference in construction between the 10004, YZZA1 (was made in TN), and the YZZF1 noted as made in Thailand.

If we're talking about Mobil 1 filters, the M1-103 spec'd for the Prius is actually smaller than the YZZF2. Also the M1-103 is not Toyota specific, so what compromise is it making for which vehicle. My choice is the Mobil 1 M1-209 filter, same anti-drain and bypass specs as the YZZF2/F1, just a larger filtration area and capacity.

Wayne

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FireEngineer @ May 24 2007, 09:47 AM) [snapback]448991[/snapback]</div>

That's pretty much my estimation of the situation, as well. Although the YZZF2 is used in all of the smaller Toyota engines, it's highly unlikely that there's any sound engineering reason for it. A more likely explanation is, as stated, cost and space considerations, i.e., the smaller engines go into smaller engine bays so Toyota just uses an identical (except for length) oil filter on all of them. It's just not worth the time and expense for the Toyota engineers to see if the longer YZZF1 oil filter will work in each one of those specific, individual applications. Additionally, a longer oil filter on a smaller engine could affect production on the assembly line as engines are installed with the oil filter already attached.

But if owners discover that the longer oil filter fits with no interference (and it's exactly the same price as the shorter one), the benefits (ease of installation and increased oil capacity) far outweigh the (extremely remote) possible detriments, the only one of which I can think of being the longer filter gets too close to an extreme temperature source and/or extends down far enough to become more susceptable to under-carriage road debris damage.

This last one (road debris damage) is the reason that GM used a short filter on their rear-drive V8 cars. The oil filter was attached at the rear of the engine and hung straight down behind the oil pan. The short oil filter did not extend past the base of the oil pan, but when using the identical, longer filter, it would, and would consequently be much more likely to be struck and damaged by road debris.