Toyota: $50k Hydrogen Sedan By 2015

I agree Tideland. Where does the hydrogen come from? Mostly hydrocarbons today. And how about the infrastructure for distribution and storage? I think batteries or carbon-neutral hydrocarbons (e.g. biodiesel) are better bets at the moment.

 

So let me see:

• $50 K - fuel cell vehicle
• $50 K - GM two-mode (Ok, add $5-10k)

Hummm, what to do? What to do?

I'll have to cruise around in one of our Prius and think about it.

Bob Wilson

 

We might be more enlightened after reading BMW experiences with H2...

They even talk H2 venting away from tanks due to safety issues...

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_7]BMW Hydrogen 7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Mr.Toyoda, leave H2 behind, please...

 

At the moment, while still every source of energy is possible, I would say the only secure way (and no bet) is to save energy, that is to say, consume less.
New technologies have to be sustainable, safe and comfortable. Biodiesel is not sustainable, H2 is not safe, Batteries are not comfortable. A mix of these, regarding each kind of service, is probably the future, but only if energy saving issues are completed.

 

Actually, the best answer is to let the market decide. If someone wants to put a hydrogen or electric-only or even a wind-up spring vehicle on the market, as long as they meet uniform safety standards, bring it on . . . compete. Let the buyer decide if it is a good deal.

Advanced, high-power, fuel cells have utility but to announce a product at $50k, well let the market decide. I'll let others take my place in that line.

Bob Wilson

 

hydrogen - and with each $50K car, you get a free jet pack
:lol:


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Does anybody know how much the hydrogen costs?
If you had a FCHV, and had a pumpstation, how much you will pay to refill?

 

Hydrogen could come from nuclear power plants. It is not really best from the current designs unless you want to use electricity to split water which is pretty energy intensive. New designs could produce hydrogen along side of the electricity aided by excess heat from the plant that would normally be wasted. This stuff is quite far away technology, it is not even close to as ready as battery operated electric cars are becoming.

 

I don't understand the fascination with hydrogen. It's insanely expensive and ridiculously inefficient. The entire concept is fundamentally flawed. No matter what source of energy is used, it would be cheaper and more efficient to charge batteries.

Read the BMW article - the car's 'tank' doesn't even stay full by itself. It needs its own portable fridge to keep the "fuel" - no, I mean hydrogen - supercooled, or it all vents away. Brilliant.

Hydrogen is not 'future technology'. It's a complete and utter waste of time and money.

 

Germans plan to make 'synthetic natural' gas from CO2 ? The Register

Remorseless German and Austrian boffins have a cunning new plan which could be good news for cutting down on fossil fuel use: they can make "synthetic natural gas" using electric power, water and carbon dioxide.

"Our demonstration system in Stuttgart splits water using electrolysis. The result is hydrogen and oxygen," explains Dr Michael Specht of the Zentrum für Sonnenenergie- und Wasserstoff-Forschung (Solar energy and Waterstuff [Hydrogen] Research centre - ZSW).


"A chemical reaction of hydrogen with carbon dioxide [then] generates methane – and that is nothing other than natural gas, produced synthetically."

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Well that's one way to store hydrogen! In practice it would be used in liquefied natural gas (LNG) or compressed natural gas (CNG) vehicles. The researchers are proposing using it as a storage system for electricity generated off-peak, to average out the demand for electricity.

 

Then we're not seeing the whole picture.
And where does renewable-source electricity show up on the CO2 graph?

 

I'm glad to see somebody here ask that question. This is often overlooked int he hydrogen equation yet it is the MOST important thing for determining how it would succeed in the market.

Last I heard, hydrogen costs about 5 times more than gasoline per mile driven. (somebody please tell me this has changed, I don't have any recent data.)

So great.. Gas hits $4 a gallon and everyone complains about it. Then some smug person drives by smiling in the hydrogen powered vehicle who pays the equivalent of $25 a gallon. That'll get the masses switching over, won't it?

I know several people who own a Prius and don't care at all about the environment. They don't believe in global warming. But they drive a Prius because it saves them gas, hence money. If hydrogen can't eventually do the same thing, then it will never succeed.

Right now the most efficient vehicle we can drive is an electric vehicle like the Leaf.