TOYOTA BRAKE BOOSTER PUMP CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT FILED

Discussion in 'Prius v Main Forum' started by Tim Jones, Feb 8, 2020.

  1. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Active Member

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  2. davecook89t

    davecook89t Senior Member

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    "The plaintiff says he noticed the car continued to travel at previous speeds even when he pressed the brake pedal to slow down when driving over dips, railroad tracks, manhole covers and other bumpy obstacles."

    This is a well documented "feature" of the Toyota hybrid braking system and is not related to failure of the brake booster pump as the complainant is claiming. I am not necessarily defending the way the system is designed, but I doubt the class action will be successful, unless the cause of action is amended.
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Just got an extended warranty on our 2013 hycam from Toyota
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Who starts a class action with only one complaint?
     
  5. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Active Member

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    I think there is a lot of complaints. I got the link in a email. Can't believe toyota don't include the v.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Definitely a lot, but are we talking the leaky booster or the funky traction control?
     
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  7. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Active Member

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    Pretty sure it's the booster.
     
  8. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I'm with @davecook89t on this so far.

    The plaintiff has specifically complained about the normal and ordinary behavior of Toyota's blended regenerative hybrid brakes. I don't get why Toyota would then come out saying that it could be due to a malfunction in a different model than the complaint car. I don't get why they're related at all.

    Sadly I think some judge is going to have to waste too much of the taxpayers' time before (hopefully) just tossing the whole thing out.
     
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  9. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Active Member

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    I must have read a different article.
     
  10. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Active Member

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    Lawsuit Wants Toyota to Inform and Support Customers with Brake Booster Leaks
    Over a million Toyota hybrid vehicles are at risk of developing a small leak inside their brake boosters which can significantly delay the car’s stopping power. And the worst part? Toyota knows all about it.

    That’s the premise of a class-action lawsuit that says the automaker is acting irresponsibly by only offering to:

    1. Repair this issue after a braking incident occurs, and –
    2. Cover the cost of the repair only if the car triggers a specific diagnostic code.
    In a statement, Toyota says they “stand behind” the efficiency of their braking system. Well, that makes sense – you certainly wouldn’t want to stand in front of one of these cars.


    Read the Full Story
     
  11. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I'm not saying there isn't a problem, and apparently Toyota isn't saying there isn't a problem. But here's the specific complaint listed:

    This is a fairly good characterization of the normal function of Toyota hybrid brakes when used in those specific conditions. The plaintiff is trying to pass it off as a problem with the brake booster.

    Toyota wants to fix something else whose symptoms aren't actually spelled out in this article. All we know from this article is that when that problem happens it will leave one of four DTC codes in memory. If Toyota finds those codes, they'll do the fix. That sounds pretty reasonable to me.
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the o/p article mentions car not slowing down over bumpy surfaces. the editorial in post #10 is completely different
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if you want action, there's a dealer in california who won't sell the used priuses he takes in on trade, and is suing toyota.that's the real brake actuator problem
     
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  14. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    This is like McDonalds offering to replace leaky coffee cups for free, but only after they leak on you.

    Then McPlaintiff wants to sue them for a new coffee cup even before it leaks and his complaint, the reason he wants this is because he found a beef patty in his hamburger.

    Okay, we can all argue forever about how good that beef patty actually is, but the point is it is normal for it to be in the hamburger. That's how hamburgers are. It doesn't entitle McPlaintiff to a new coffee cup. So the lawsuit itself is damaged goods, which is why I hope it gets thrown out.
     
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  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I would be grinning all week if I had come up with that apt summary.
     
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  16. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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  17. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Excellent analogy!
     
  18. Inquisitor

    Inquisitor New Member

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    I don't agree that loss of braking power, brake assist/ABS/stability control failure, or premature deterioration or malfunction of the brake booster pump components are legitimate "features" of Toyota's hybrid braking system. Toyota issued their extended warranty "Customer Support Program ZJB" because they KNOW they manufactured a batch of faulty brake booster pumps (I'm not speculating here, they explicitly admitted it in the letter!), but they're severely restricting the program by requiring the dealers to pick up very specific diagnostic codes before agreeing to pay for the necessary repair to replace these bad parts.

    There's a dealer in southern California who VOLUNTARILY pulled $2M worth of vehicles off the lot and flagged them "DO NOT SELL" while they filed a petition with the NHTSA to have them investigate the issue. That's also mentioned as part of the basis for the class action lawsuit. Don't let one poorly written news article about the lead plaintiff's experience convince you this particular suit has no merit.

    In my personal experience (2013 Prius), I have had my BRAKES FAIL a number of times now, and it's led to some serious close calls but I have fortunately not gotten into an accident (yet). I've brought my car to a dealer three times since October 2019 (after I received the ZJB letter) and every time the dealer says they can't find anything wrong with my brakes. I asked them specifically what could cause the ABS and stability control to fail to engage, or my brake pedal to suddenly go soft and hit the floor while my wheels lock up and I helplessly slide through a stop light, or why I once skidded and failed to immediately come to a complete stop while braking at the exit of a paved parking lot (dry road, no gravel or potholes), and they came up with no possible explanation. For the record, I have good tires, proper inflation, good alignment, my rotors and pads are fine, and I wasn't speeding or texting or otherwise doing something stupid or distracted when I had my near-accidents.

    Unfortunately this problem is an intermittent (but very serious and potentially high consequence) failure I've been experiencing, and the chance of it randomly duplicating itself during the 0.1% of total vehicle drive time the mechanic's testing takes up is slim to none. The booster pump and assembly is not just a fancy mechanical part, it includes an internal ECU and wiring that receive signal input and control the ABS, and only Toyota knows if the nature of this booster pump manufacturing defect that TOYOTA HAS ACKNOWLEDGED is electrical, mechanical, software or some combination of all three. Now I'm faced with a problem: Do I pay $3k out of pocket to replace the booster pump and assembly, then dispute Toyota's refusal to cover it under their ZJB extended warranty in the hopes of getting my money back (possibly only after the NHTSA petition or class action lawsuit prevails)? Give up and get rid of my 70k mile car that's fully paid off to buy something else? Take Toyota's word that there's "nothing wrong" with my car and keep driving it and hope for the best?

    Has anyone had a similar experience? What have you done or what do you think you would you do in this situation?
     
    #18 Inquisitor, Feb 15, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
  19. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    You're doing a spectacular job here of conflating everything you've ever heard about Gen 3 brake issues as if none of the details matter.

    Nobody said anything was a "feature" except for the split-second 'whoopee' that every generation of Prius does if there's a regen-to-friction transition earlier than expected.

    There has been nothing about a faulty booster pump. There was a recall about faulty accumulators (that's the other round thing on the booster pump assembly), but that wasn't ZJB, that was D0H. It involved a run of accumulators that were built with undersized bellows. It only replaced accumulators from that run. Why would it apply to more?

    ZJB was not about the booster pump or accumulator, but about a small internal leak in the actuator (that is a separate assembly in Gen 3). It replaces actuators that suffer from that specific problem. It isn't a free actuator replacement for anybody whose actuator wears out in some other way after the warranty period.

    Right, that's a separate suit, it's ongoing, and will presumably be decided on its own merits.

    But on this particular suit, I kind of am convinced, because the news article wasn't written poorly enough to conceal that this particular suit has no merit.

    That's surely very concerning, and nothing I say should sound like I don't want the problem with your car to be identified and fixed.

    No it doesn't. The ECU is part of the actuator assembly, which is separate from the booster pump and assembly in Gen 3.

    Toyota has acknowledged several distinct issues, though none happened to involve the booster pump. So far, they are replacing parts known to be affected by those specific issues. There is a suit and an NHTSA investigation under way to find out if they should do more, and that suit/investigation seem to be more potentially meritorious than the one in this thread.

    ZJB pertains to actuators that develop a small internal hydraulic leak, so unless you are sure that you have an actuator problem resulting from a small internal hydraulic leak, you will probably be at a disadvantage in that particular dispute.

    Yes, there have been several distinct identified problems. Complicating the picture is that there has also been an all-Prius-generations normal behavior that tends to startle new owners, and often gets stirred into the mix with the actual problems. And there is ongoing legal process right now to find out more details.

    The best thing we can do on PriusChat is make sure we keep all the details straight: the ones we already have, and whatever new ones come out of the ongoing process. Throwing every braking complaint ever heard into a pot and stirring without any regard to the details doesn't do anybody any good: not Toyota, not Toyota customers, not plaintiffs, not judges and juries who need to hear and decide cases.
     
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  20. davecook89t

    davecook89t Senior Member

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    This doesn't sound like the regen-to-friction transition that we are all familiar with, and if it was my car I would certainly go to any length to get it fixed. I wonder if maybe this should be taken to a higher authority than your local dealer, say Toyota Corporate? The car is equipped with an Event Data Recorder which Toyota would be able to analyze if you made a good enough case for it. I hope they are not so short-sighted to only be willing to do that if they are being sued because you are in a serious accident. It wouldn't hurt to see what they have to say, anyway.

    I hope you are able to have your concerns addressed properly.
     
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