Featured Toyota bZ4X Specifications Revealed

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Tideland Prius, Oct 29, 2021.

  1. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I’m ok with no frunk if it means a more efficient package.

    This obsession with frunks stems from a design that means there was wasted space that allowed for the creation of one where it could’ve been used to improve cabin space or trunk space.
     
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  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    A design that:
    • maintains an aerodynamic front
    • uses empty space efficiently
    • the battery is below the floor of the car
    It isn't an obsession but efficient use of the space in a well designed EV. But if the lack of a frunk 'cranks your tractor' go for it:


    Bob Wilson
     
  3. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    A frunk allows for an efficient design that also has a large crumple zone for safety.

    Mike
     
  4. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    In what senses do you perceive this design to be more efficient?

    What the animations here seem to show under the hood is … a motor? … in the center occupying about 1/3 of the under-hood space with seemingly-wasted, empty space to the right and left of it.
     
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  5. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Ah. Best I can tell, their only purpose for the steer-by-wire system is to allow a variable ratio steering system for the yoke. While I agree that that’s better than the utterly-pointless, unsafe BS Tesla is pushing, my take is that a yoke like using a pocket knife to tighten a screw; it’s simply the wrong tool for the job!

    I don’t see how the steering ratio … tripling? quadrupling? … as you rotate a yoke past 90 degrees can be workable either. Just give me back my freaking round wheel!

    Tesla is just making up pointless solutions to systems that never had any problems in the first place! And now Toyota is coming up with a better solution that same pointless non-problem?
     
    #85 mr88cet, Nov 13, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
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  6. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Ah.
     
  7. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Looks like the charger and inverter are there since the charging port is located on the front driver’s fender, which are probably air cooled. One of the reviews indicated there is a small auto-shuttered air intake below the nose cowling.

    I’d give up the frunk too if it meant making it easier to maintain the car like adding coolant, or having a 2 gallon windshield cleaner tank (so I don’t have to keep refilling it). Seems to me also an ideal spot to store the charging cable so maybe Toyota and Subaru are making that a defined storage area.


    iPad ? Pro
     
  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    That’s a good point. Mach-E as an example with a long hood and subsequently a large frunk.

    But what about the ID.4? Or even the Gen 2 Prius with its short hood?

    In the overall length of a car, you can dedicate more space into the interior with a shorter hood. Like the old Previa. Or the Gen 2 Prius.

    The longer hood design is typically associated style and design (short deck, long hood) like the Kia Stinger or Lexus GS or Mach-E. Also, it’s indicative of a larger engine too (longitudinal inline sixes need more space than compact V6s or even V8s.)
     
  9. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    The hood looks to be about the same length as the RAV4 — pretty typical, not particularly short.
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    There is that if. I've positive comments about the ID.3's roomy front space, but how much of this is from not having a frunk or from having a longer wheelbase than the comparable ICE model for a bigger battery?

    From profile picks, the bZ4X's hood looks as long as the Model Y's based on where the A-pillar meets the hood in relation to the wheel. It might be longer that the Ioniq's. I thought I could stuff a plastic bin into the open space under there of the Electric version. So is the bZ4X not having a frunk going to lead to a more efficient package?
    Well, as one of the first new BEVs to the market, Tesla could have turned off buyers going with a design too different from what they were use too. Tesla was also aiming for an upscale market, where aesthetics is more important. The forward trunk was a clever use of what otherwise would have been empty space. From the photos, the bZ4X appears that it might be going for those aesthetics without giving a function to the space.

    If the BEV makes use of the space, I don't see the lack of a frunk as a deal killer. In a hatchback or SUV, I would prefer a frunk though. It provides a secure trunk for protecting valuables from opportunistic thieves. It is also a place to store the car's everyday carry items, like emergency supplies, where they won't clutter the back or cabin, and likely won't be buried under a ton of cargo when you need them.

    The Toyota yoke could be great in a sports car. Don't see the need in a SUV.

    Perhaps they are, but this is supposedly the production model being shown off. having the jack and everything under there wouldn't be a bad use instead of a frunk with the mechanical equipment for FWD there.

    For those that like using winter and summer blend washer fluid, 2 gallons could be an issue.;) Then think of the weight.
     
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  11. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    I don’t see in a sports car either, personally. A yoke in a car (other than possibly an F1 car (since it never takes sharp turns), is plain pointless, disfunctional design. I’m not even convinced that it looks any better, especially Tesla’s design.
     
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It does make it easier to see all those screens:rolleyes:

    Tesla was probably thinking a yoke gives the cabin a more airy feeling. Which wouldn't be a bad thing for when, and if, self driving features are more advanced. I think Tesla is just too optimistic on that time frame.
     
  13. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Toyota has always had an obsession with the yoke steering wheel, particularly their Lexus vehicles. It’s in the LF-Z concept as well as many other Toy and Lexus concepts. I’m thinking this is Akio’s passion and the bZ4X is his Trojan horse to sneak this in a production car. That way they get to see how popular it really is and with the bZ4X’s top speed of 99mph and 7.7 second acceleration to 62 mph, they would lose only half of the customers who ordered it. I can see it being useful (ok useful is a strong word) for places with lots of hairpin turns where within a 75 degree twist you can get full cornering capability without removing your hands and without advanced police training. As I said before, I can see myself getting in quite a bit of trouble with this.


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  14. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Yes, Tesla does indeed make the claim that it makes it easier to see the binnacle behind the wheel. I don’t disagree, but lining everything up correctly is a concern we’ve been solving for easily for decades.

    What Tesla should have done is turned the binnacle into a HUD.

    I’m kinda annoyed at Tesla because they’re the only EV maker with the needed charging infrastructure and good efficiency, but their cockpits are idiotic nonsense.

    They had it pretty much perfect on the original Model S, but they just keep getting weirder and weirder for no useful reason whatsoever.

    Meanwhile nobody else makes a really good EV. The Mach E is getting there though. The Ionic 5, with its allegedly long-sustained super-fast recharge speeds, may be a good one.
     
  15. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    Nice marketing! The bZ is designed to look like an electric plug...


    [​IMG]
     
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  16. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    ID.4 is not that efficient (97 MPGe)
    Gen 2 Prius is an efficient design...but as a guess not nearly as safe as a Tesla

    Mike
     
  17. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    I ran across a video recently that unexpectedly mentioned efficiency detail... giving the impression of EPA estimates, like a publish timing slip before an embargo lift. It was just buried within spec compare information. The narrator even stated nothing official has been released from Toyota; nonetheless, these values caught my attention:

    200 Miles AWD
    230 Miles FWD

    106 MPGe Highway
    115 MPGe City

    They could be initial test results providing ballpark expectations. We've seen that in the past. So, it wouldn't surprise me to find official values later rather close. They seem realistic. Somewhere around an efficiency of 3.1 mi/kWh would be reasonable for the size, weight, and shape.
     
    #97 john1701a, Nov 14, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2021
  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    It is in line with other SUVs. It should come to no surprise that SUVs are less efficient.

    This is why both Tesla and Lucid started with sedans - to get the most range and lowest highest efficiency, before offering SUVs.

    Yeah, I’m gonna guess not as safe either. 15 years is a long time for crash safety improvements.
     
    #98 Tideland Prius, Nov 14, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  19. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Labeling Model Y as a SUV is quite a stretch. A quick glance at both Ford & GM webpages overwhelmingly confirm Tesla's offering looks nothing like any of them. It is really a very large hatchback, benefiting from the aerodynamics of the smoother shape. Of course, that lack of hard edges (for a more robust look) is exactly what appeals to the Ford & GM customer. In fact, if you compare Corolla Cross to the first Highlander Hybrid you are in for quite a surprise.

    Know your audience... which begs the ultimate question of this discussion. Toyota is clearly targeting the legacy shopper with bZ4X. How will Tesla respond? There is nothing from Tesla in that category... something with a rugged appearance that is competitively priced. ID.4 from VW will be the obvious compare to bZ4X. In fact, that's why there is speculation that Toyota will undercut its price. The balance power & range would offset any supposed shortcoming.

    In other words, growth beyond early-adopters requires a think reset. It is a very different market than what we all knew in the prior decade. Sedans are vanishing and the basics of range-anxiety have been addressed. This next stage has new challenges.
     
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I think you meant to say "best efficiency" not "lowest efficiency."

    Bob Wilson

    ps. Feel free to nuke this post ... if only I could avoid such mistakes. <GRINS>
     
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