Toyota Europe hybrid sales up 82.3% YoY

From the article:

I still think this car (our Prius 'c') has an excellent chance of convincing Europeans to not buy diesel cars.

 

And the hot-looking 2014 Lexus IS 300h F Sport will convince some.

 

This is good news. Does anyone know if hybrid sales are starting to "even out" around Europe? Until recently at least, there were far fewer sales in Germany, for example, than a number of other countries.
I don't think gas hybrids will replace diesel in Europe, but I do think they will provide another fuel effecient option. And Europeans, as diesel buyers, are used to the idea that you pay more up front for better fuel economy.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by even out. Hybrids are still a very small part of the Europe-27 sales, diesels are a high percentage. Some details about Toyota's recovery in europe and market share gains.

UPDATE 2-Toyota sees European profit as revamp bears fruit| Reuters

Toyota Europe News

That makes Toyota + Lexus hybrids 0.9% of what I'm guessing are the 56 countries toyota defines as Europe.

 

In many European Countries diesel costs significantly less than petrol. That with the generally better economy means diesel cars sell well. Germany and France for example.

Some Countries have worked out that diesel stinks and price it higher (the UK for one) and thus the fuel economy benefits of diesel (compared to a non hybrid petrol) is offset by the higher cost of the fuel and the car. Unfortunately many manufacturers price their hybrid option as a premium model and charge accordingly. That doesn't help sales.

 

From Western Europe 18 countries, in 2011 Diesel was over 50%. It is interesting that the UK starting in 2009 started buying a higher percentage of diesels than Germany.
Vehicle Technologies Office: Fact #716: February 27, 2012<br />Diesels are more than Half of New Cars Sold in Western Europe

 

They don't even bother selling the Corolla in the UK.

I'd like to see Toyota start selling the Corolla Hatchback in the USA and include a hybrid model. With the RX450h coming soon to ON, adding the Corolla Hatch Hybrid would keep upping the NA hybrid assembly numbers. The higher it gets the better the chance of getting a NA hybrid drivetrain supplier.

 

When you are selling around 1% hybids in 56 countries, the numbers are going to be sparse and clustered in some counties. Here is Germany, that almost doubled in 2012 vs 2011
2012 (Full Year) Germany: Electric and Hybrid Car Sales - Car Sales Statistics

For 2011
2011 Full Year Car Sales by Fuel Type in European Countries - Car Sales Statistics

 

Good news for Toyota and reduction of CO2 is better for the ecology

 

You are attempting to explain the clustering.

Toyota + Lexus hybrids are less than 1% of car sales in the 56 countries it defines as Europe. You are giving quite a different statistic, what percent of the cars Toyota plus Lexus sells are hybrids in those 56 countires. IF they only sold 10 cars and they were all hybrids, then under your statistics it would be 100%, but those are not meaning full. We could consider tesla, and say Europe buys 100% electric cars, but we see when we break tesla out, in most countries they have very very small market share. When market share is small normally there are regional clusters. When I say Europe I mean EU-27, and Toyota, I mean Toyota, not Toyota plus lexus. I haven't seen a breakdown for what most of us call European sales (EU-27) and if this is greater than 1% for Toyota. It could be better, I really don't know since Toyota does not break it out for us.

Again that would be nice, but they have chosen not to sell the ISh in the US, which will hurt its sales.

Again, Toyota is giving incentives to keep factories running in Japan. They can do this profitably because of the weak yen. If you read something else into what I wrote you were making it up in your head. The prius incentives have already started in texas. I received letters from 3 different Toyota dealers last weak with discounts, I was surprised at how aggressive the marketing has become.

I'm not sure where that came from at all. Is Toyota claiming some big increase?

 

Ford and VW both sell hybrids in America yet Ford don't bother here and VW only sell theirs at such a massive premium that I can't imagine anyone buying one.

Even Toyota who support hybrids don't offer it as an option on their main selling midsize car the Avensis. The Rav4 EV would sell here but that isn't offered.

The main trouble is that the European car market is totally and utterly dominated by the VW group who have a thing for diesel. They own the Czech company Skoda which offer a very similar line up to VW but usually older tech at a lower price, then the Spanish company Seat which is again a similar lineup to VW but priced between Skoda and VW. Then there's Audi which is the posh version of VW.

All of those brands are pro diesel and all the motoring magazines eat out of the hand of the VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat group for fear of upsetting them.

The French manufacturers (Renault, Peugeot & Citroen) do offer some diesel hybrids and they are actually very nice looking cars if a little over priced. And that's the trouble. A Peugeot hybrid costs more than a Volt/Ampera. Maybe it would work in France where diesel is much cheaper to buy but here where diesel is more expensive, they don't sell.

 

Since we are talking about europe, and I linked the toyota press realease it should be rather self explanatory. Toyota in the European + Asian countries toyota defines as europe (56) it's sales recovered to 4.5% of the market. 20% of those were toyota and lexus hybrids. (4.5% x 20%) = 0.9%. Hence if we were to simply care percentage was better, I guess you could say if toyota + lexus slipped to 2% market share and got 45% hybrids that would be better even though its the same percenatge of the european market. To me it is no different, its 0.9%. Toyota + Lexus grew hybrids in these 56 european and asian countries to about 1/3 of what they sell in the US, and much less than they sall in Japan.

Again, I'm not so sure what your problem is with tesla. It is likely to sell about 10% BEVs world wide as Toyota and Lexus together sell in the 56 countries Toyota corporate defines as Europe. That is 100% EV. See why the 20% and 100% are meaningless? Growth at tesla in 2013 should be more than 400%, but again its from a small number, so percentage doesn't matter as much. Does that give you some perspective?

It is still 0.9%. It is small compared to the US. I am just saying how to work numbers. You seem to want to put words in my mouth. It is not 20% of the market, it is a small part of that market, and if you look at EU27, that market looks quite sick this year. It looks a little better when you expand it.

Yawn. Hooray Europe, you now are buying around 1% hybrids. Japan and North America seem to have accepted hybrids, europe? not by the way I roll the numbers, but I do not fault your enthusasm. I only commented because of the post that hoped hybrids were catching up to diesels in europe?

You again keep misrepresenting my posts. You commented angrilly that Toyota would not incentives the prius in NA because of falling Japanese sales. I have recieved multiple letters with incentives. Toyota is putting incentives on the prius in the US to run the japanese factories. I have no idea what the incentives are in Europe, nor do I really care. My prediction was incentives in North America where they are likely to help with Japanese production of prius. Your comment was there were no reason for US incentives. I guess Toyota felt otherwise.

Again. Just stop putting the oposite words in my mouth. You claim that toyota is selling huge numbers of hybrids in europe. I just put a market percentage out there from their press release. I would like it if europe bought more hybrids. That would be a good thing. It just is not the crazy rosy scenario you put out. Again when our numbers disagree, I use EU27 for europe and Toyota for Toyota. You appear to use 56 countries for Europe and Toyota + Lexus for Toyota. If you see a post of mine, where you get crazy mad at my figures, think about the way most of the world defines things. That may avoid confusion. It is good that toyota grew hybrids in Europe. I really haven't seen the amounts. It would be better if Toyota sold as many hybrids in europe as they do in the US.

 

Looks like the 2014 Corolla Hybrid!

Toyota Unveils Green Car Concepts At Auto Shanghai Show