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Toyota is in Serious Trouble and its Getting Worse Fast

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by jburns, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. jburns

    jburns Senior Senior Member

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    Below is the first several paragraphs of a CNN article posted tonight. It goes into more details later so I'm also posting the url so you can read the rest.


    Ex-Toyota lawyer says documents prove company hid damaging information - CNN.com


    Los Angeles, California (CNN ) -- When former in-house defense attorney Dimitrios Biller resigned from his top post at Toyota, he walked out with something potentially more valuable than his nearly $4 million severance package.
    He took some 6,000 internal documents, including memos and e-mails potentially damaging to his former employer.
    "Not potentially, they are. They are very damaging," Biller said.
    Biller, now entangled in litigation with the auto giant, defended the company in product liability and negligence cases from 2003 to 2007. He says he quit because of what he alleges were "criminal acts" by Toyota -- specifically, withholding information the company was legally required to turn over to plaintiffs' lawyers during litigation.

    "There is a regular pattern and practice of not producing memos, minutes, reports, and e-mails," Biller said. "These documents can be used to establish liability against Toyota in product liability and negligence cases."
    The documents -- some of which were reviewed by CNN -- were sent by Biller to Toyota officials. There are numerous references to so-called "Books of Knowledge," highly confidential information on design, safety systems and testing records allegedly generated by Toyota engineers on everything from roll-overs and roof safety to sudden unintended acceleration.

    The chairman of a U.S. House committee investigating Toyota seems to agree with Biller, saying Toyota engaged in a "systematic disregard for the law and routine violation of court discovery orders in litigation."

    Rep. Edolphus Towns, D-New York, whose committee subpoenaed Biller's documents, said "The material, I must admit, is very, very disturbing."

    Toyota defends its actions, saying, "We are confident that we have acted appropriately with respect to all product liability litigation."
    Yet so far, the company has fought to keep the documents confidential and away from court cases --
     
  2. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    A $4 million severance package? What is up with that?
     
  3. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    You're at least a week or two or three behind the times with this junk.

    C'mon get up to date. They looked at the 'Billers Boxes'. Issa, the Republican on the committee, sent a scathing letter back to Towns saying that the contents of the 'Biller Boxes' was junk. One box was filled with multiple copies of his resume' if I'm not mistaken.

    Legal Briefing: Toyota Whistleblower's Hot Docs Are Just Hot Air - DailyFinance


    Welcome to last week.

    Welcome to last December.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    If this guy is such a crazy bum like Toyota has stated, why give him a $4 million severance package? Does that seem odd to anyone else? Why not just fire him?
     
  5. jburns

    jburns Senior Senior Member

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    DeadPhish,

    Hey I'm sorry my post didn't meet your standards but if CNN pulled the article together and posted it today it is probably worthy to be mentioned here. Instead of constantly kissing Toyotas butt try and analyze what is happening. I'll bet two months ago you would have ridiculed anyone who said that Toyota's situation would be what it is today. I'll also bet you right now that it will be a lot worse two months from now.

    Reports will continue to pour in about unintended acceleration causing accidents. Most of them will be false, but it won't matter. No large corporation can withstand the amount of scrutiny that Toyota is about to undergo and emerge unscathed. Civil suits are sprouting like a well watered wheat field. Add to that the fact that Congress is now getting into full witch hunt mode against a foreign company that has been kicking the US auto industries butt for decades.

    Current owners are already being affected by all this. Today three people asked me if I was gong to sell my Prius before it killed me. I have no intention of sellng but I have to admit I am less then thrilled that Edmunds this week again lowered the value of the recalled models. This time by 3.5 percent. If you have a car loan and wreck your Prius I hope you have gap insurance because insurance companies base how much they will pay for a totaled car on the current blue book value. A lot of people who think they have full coverage don't.

    So you can just continue to make flippant comments if you wish, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a serious problem that will end up negatively affecting most of the folks in this forum before it runs it course.
     
  6. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    The $4 million was contingent on him keeping confidencial matters confidential. They want it back now, and are fighting hard to keep the documents private. He has lost a lawsuit in california, so he is trying to get them to the authorities in federal court.

    Deadphish will only believe articles from the pr sites. Otherwise there is no story.
     
  7. apriusfan

    apriusfan New Member

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    He can't. He has already consumed the Toyota Kool-Aid. He would have to turn in his secret Toyota decoder ring if he did. :eek:

    He did. Multiple times. Ask malorn.

    I will bet you that Phish denies that things will be worse for Toyota two months from now than they are now.
     
  8. apriusfan

    apriusfan New Member

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    What lawsuit did Biller lose in California? He and Toyota were put into arbitration, which is the process for attorney-client disputes in California.
     
  9. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    he lost an attorney client privilege case. He was ordered not to show the documents in cases in state court. Toyota is sueing for its exit money back. That is still in progress.
     
  10. ceric

    ceric New Member

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    This is normal. Under litigation, anythings could turn out from extensive searching. Some of the things would carry fire power even though you don't think about it in a normal day. Watch and learn. The show has just begun, and it will last for a while.

    I love my Prius, but I own a Toyota. Toyota does not own me.
     
  11. apriusfan

    apriusfan New Member

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    Do you have a citation? Being banned from disclosing documents that would support a plaintiff's case that were illegally withheld by Toyota is basically circumvention of the law. California courts are rather hesitant to enforce that kind of contract.

    Then there is always the Federal Circuit.

    Somehow, I doubt that Biller (or Toyota) will be out of the news for any extended period of time.
     
  12. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    It does not affect the federal case. I'll look it up tomorrow.
     
  13. ManualOnly

    ManualOnly New Member

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  14. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    For some reason it bothers me that the lawyer leaving Toyota is given 4 million dollars, while the paralysed girl has to fight just to see a 1.5 million dollar settlement.
     
  15. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    No it didn't meet my standards. It's your interpretation ( see your title ) of a CNN piece partially reporting facts from a week ago and not reporting the whole story.

    You might want to take a deep breath and stop hyperventilating so much about every 'blown-out-of-proportion' situation that comes at you down the road. Have you experienced anything like what's being fabricated ( Biller, ABC News, Rhonda 'Hallelujah Jesus I'm Saved' Smith, Sikes the Scammer, etc, etc )? No, I didn't think so.

    So if it doesn't affect you why develop a case of agita? Your fears are going to cause you to pull over the side of the road and park your life there because of all the bad boogeymen that you fear 'might' be behind around the next unforeseen curve.

    But to assuage your fears...
    GAP does not use kbb.com nor edmunds.com as a guideline. GAP has one purpose and one purpose alone. It cancels out your debt to the lender in the event your vehicle is totalled. When you end up in a 'totalled' or 'near-totalled' situation after an accident your vehicle is worthless except for scrap. It doesn't matter what kbb or edmunds thinks, it's worthless. GAP cancels out the difference between the scrap value as estimated by the insurance company and your debt to the lender. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Fearing the 'potential loss in value' of your Prius today when you have no intention of selling it today is worthless fear and anxiety. If you're going to keep your Prius the only value that matters is that when you sell it. Your fears are typical of portfolio holders that sell after every crash - at the bottom - and wonder why they never have success. Since you intend to HOLD your Prius then the only value that matters is that when you wish to sell it. If you happen to sell it when gas has jumped to $6 per gallon for the first time you'll be very very happy; c.f. Summer 2008.

    This fact is true though. If you are going to keep your vehicle for a long time such as I am and put upwards of 250,000 to 300,000 miles on it then the vehicle will be 'worth' about $1500 when you want to dispose of it. Nothing anyone else says or does will affect that price.

    Oh, btw, what other people think or say has no effect whatsoever on what I do. When some asks me about my Prius I tell them that at 145,000 miles that my 2005 is better than their xxxxx. It's proven itself to me and that's all that matters.

    If you're really really really afraid and it keeps you awake at night then do the right thing. Sell it now. Just like a stock portfolio your best loss is your first loss.

    [/comments on unfounded fears]
     
  16. New_Yorker

    New_Yorker New Member

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    You have 2.8 chances out of 1,000,000 to be in a fatal accident in a Toyota car. Sorry, but those are the odds. Not much to worry about in my opinion, but feel free to imitate 'Chicken Little' if you want to, God knows the media frenzy over this is making 'Chicken Little' look calm and serene. But them Chicken Little had no declining Ad Revenue's in need of a story, any story.
     
  17. robbyr2

    robbyr2 New Member

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    It would be nice if the cnn article contained new information, other than Ms. Green's violation of her non-disclosure agreemnt. Of course when Biller sends out a press release a new story is required.

    In most states, you can use stolen documents only if the judge believes the documents are sufficient to establish violations of law. Maybe the judge agreed with Cong Issa (who is NOT a friend of Toyota). Of course, Cong Towns didn't read the material- he is a congressman right?
     
  18. a1a1a1

    a1a1a1 Member

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    I bet they'd pay a hundred times that just to have this whole thing go away.
     
  19. jburns

    jburns Senior Senior Member

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    I will ignore most of your post since it is just rambling and just respond to this. I don't need a tutorial on GAP insurance from someone that obviously doesn't understand how auto insurance works. The information in the above paragraph not even relevant to the discussion. If you go back and read my earlier post I said the I hoped folks did have GAP insurance or else they could be in financial difficulty if they have a totaled car. GAP will take care of the loss in value. It is those that do not have it that are affected and that is what I said.

    I don't know why you seem to feel that the value of a car after a total accident is significant. Total means total. Insurance does not pay on the value of your car after an accident. What they end up paying for a totaled car is what it was worth just prior to the accident occurring. That value comes from various sources like Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book. If that value is significantly less than what you still owe on a car loan you are responsible for the difference. That is the value that is dropping and that value is what, as I stated in my original post, is where some folks without GAP will get into financial difficulty.

    Before trying to present yourself as some kind of authority it would be nice if you would develop at least a basic understanding of the subject being discussed.
     
  20. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    Dead phish what exactly do you do at the Toyota dealership? Gap Insurance is insurance that covers the difference between what a customer owes and what the insurance company values the car at if it is totaled. Gap has nothing to do with the scrap value of the vehicle. Example:

    Customer buy a 2010 Prius for $28,000, tax, title, license and Gap coverage add another $2,000 to the amount financed. Customer finances $30,000 at 0% for 60 months. after 24 months of ownership customer totals vehicle. Amount owed on prius would be $18,000. Lets say Insurance company determines prius is worth $15,000, the gap coverage pays the $3,000 between insurance settlement and the amount($18,000) still owed to lending institution.