Toyota leading fight against Mexican plan to match US fuel economy standards

Toyota Turns On Fuel Cells, but Blocks Mexico Fuel Economy Law

Jake Schmidt: Toyota Seeks to Undercut Mexico's Action on Global Warming

 

Pemex gasoline contains a lot of sulfur and is not as highly refined as the US equivalent.

Many pollution contol systems have been degraded or destroyed by US residents who travel across the border for cheaper gasoline.

It would effectively be very much more expensive for both Toyota to achieve standards as high as those required in the US.

 

Are you implying that all the cars manufactured in Mexico destined for the US market are not suitable for use in Mexico because of Pemex's fuel quality?

 

They are mis-characterizing this as pollution standards. Mexico is attempting to move to the same fuel economy standards as the US. Higher fuel economy standards in Mexico are what Toyota is fighting.

I have not heard of any american cars damaged by mexican gasoline. Do you have a link. I know I have filled up there, but not in my prius.

They do have higher sulfer in the diesel, and that may harm newer diesel cars and trucks that require Americana ultra low sulfur fuels.

This maybe why toyota is fighting fuel economy in Mexico
Prius-maker Toyota sues Mexican government over fuel efficiency ruling - NY Daily News

They may be suing to get extra credit for the hybrids. I don't think hybrids should get incentives just the real fuel economy in cafe.​

 

Any idea what the fleet MPG would be if only the models currently manufactured in Mexico are used? This may be more about trade barriers than fuel economy.

 

Fuel economy is affected by how clean the gasoline is, since low quality gasoline will degrade systems that increase fuel economy.

It's been 25 years, since I have lived and worked at the San Ysidro border. At that time, I was told NEVER to put PEMEX gas into our company cars.

 

Mike I have no idea what things were like 25 years ago, but many of have put current pemex in our cars and trucks. Back then mexican gas may have included lead. They don't use the same summer blends or as much detergent, but its not going to damage pollution control. The biggest problems are old fuel tanks at the stations, and we have some of that in the US also.

All they are asking is the same fuel economy standards as in the US. I assume that would use the US test, so a car would get the same score for cafe purposes.

 

Some references please. I have not paid much attention to the "quality" of gasoline I put into the Prius.

 

There is no need to in the US.

 

References please.

 

Not worth my time to do the research....

It's not that important to me....

You can, if you wish...

Now, if there was a "small nominal fee." That would be different.

 

Ok. I thought maybe you were speaking from first hand experience or some direct knowledge.

 

I just looked up the year mexico got rid of leaded gasoline - 1998. The pumps were labeled but my guess is some Californians might have gone to the border, not speaking Spanish, and put leaded in there cars, damaging the cat. Its 14 years later, the main thing I could look up is additives and old gas tanks. That may just require people using mexican gas all the time add a fuel additive. That is also why I buy top tier gas, they have better additives and detergents. The lack of the same summer blends means gas will go stale faster, but if you are taking a month or more to go through a tank of fuel you just need to use premium, that will last longer. The low evaporation system on a prius should make stale gas from evaporation take much longer. It shouldn't be a problem for a texan occasionally making trips into Mexico. Most of the gas near the texas border comes from texas refineries.

Since this is about fuel economy with new cars, none of the differences with filling in mexico should make a difference. Toyota gets loopoles that favor it in the us law, but these are closed in the mexican proposed law. Instead of toyota appealing during the 60 day comment period they sued. Like most other big car companies, this is about toyota's bottom line. They don't really care about mexico's desire to cut oil use.

 

I am sure Mexico refineries have been working to achieve modern fuels standards, not sure how close they have gotten. The main problem with sulfur in gaso is that the catalytic converter gets less effective. Reading between the lines, politics, perhaps the Mexico standard implies more EV's and that would be Toyota's beef. Mexico relies heavily on crude oil exports for money, and so to the extent they can reduce consumption internally they can export more and their refineries may have better chance to meet demands without fuels imports (if any). Perhaps I am just paranoid? Ideally Mexico should focus on air quality not CAFE per se, but CAFE may be easier and/or have some business opportunities for alternate fuels.

 

Ever been to Mexico City? It is one of the most polluted places in the world. Beijing, however, is close behind.

 

AFAIK, the differences are less expensive additives to keep the cost down. I am guessing Mike is remembering the time when they still used lead down there. He said 25 years ago. Diesel still is just low sulfur in many Mexican States so they can't run some of the new clean diesel technology we do in the US.

Absolutely whatever oil mexico does not burn we can use in the US instead of using opec oil. Reducing oil consumption in mexico is good for all of North America. Since Gulf refineries have excess capacity, it is cheaper for mexico to use them, to build more refineries. That may change in the future, but Mexico is a good trading partner. There is nothing wrong with them selling us oil, and the US selling them gasoline and diesel.

The mexican government seems to feel that new cars are fairly clean. Oil usage is more of a problem. I agree with them other than clean diesel. Mexico should follow the ultra low sulfer and particulates rules for diesel light vehicles.

 

...there is potentially one thing wrong, EV implication is +elec power plants. And we are not talking EPA AQ standards.

 

Mexico city is really bad, but it appeared many Chinese cities are worse to my subjective view.

The problem starts with geography. Mexico city holds the polution. BUt it gets exacerbated by the trade rules.
NAFTA Bad For Mexico's Air Quality : TreeHugger

Mexico gets the US polluting cars. You can't get rid of the mexican pollution problem if you export the polluting cards to mexico. Mexico needs to add an inspection regime for pollution if cars are say above 15 years old. That would quickly get rid of the cars with out pollution control.

 

The biggest pollution problem is Mexico city. A small percentage of plug-ins there will make the air cleaner not more dirty. The main impact of this law are more efficient ice cars. It likely won't affect plug-ins much the way it is written.