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Featured Toyota sees the electric light

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Apr 6, 2023.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'm pretty sure Panasonic is a Japanese company that still makes batteries for Tesla.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    Panasonic is a big player in the Automotive Battery Market

    Toyota and Panasonic Decide to Establish Joint Venture Specializing in Automotive Prismatic Batteries | Corporate | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

    Toyota and Panasonic Decide to Establish Joint VentureSpecializing in Automotive Prismatic Batteries | Automotive Equipment | Products & Solutions | Press Release | Panasonic Newsroom Global



    Here is a company that is a Toyota/Panasonic combined venture into Energy Soutions - it is called Prime Planet Energy and Solutions
    developing and manufactuing prismatic lithium-ion batteries | Prime Planet Energy & Solutions (p2enesol.com)

    Toyota also has partnerships with LG ( soon to be publicly formalized), Panasonic, BYD Battery Research ( in China) and work under way in developing their own proprietary solid state battery. They also have a multi-billion-dollar Battery Manufacturing Plant in Noth Carolina that is being constructed as we talk.

    I am sure companies like Tesla have also formed beneficial strategic alliances.
     
    #22 John321, Apr 7, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2023
  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I guess the voodoo doll didn't work
    ;)
    Kidding aside - and focusing on the past couple decades of Toyota's stance on EV's .... perhaps it's not that Toyota has seen the EV light so much as it's effectively had it shoved down their throat - what with China (biggest market) saying no sales there, if no Electrics, & other countries similarly creating (or threatening) legislation that acts as the perverbial carrot/stick.
    .
     
    #23 hill, Apr 7, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2023
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  4. FalconSeven

    FalconSeven Member

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    The ironic thing is, despite the bz4X having a 'faster' peak charge, the Bolt sustains it's lower peak charge rate longer, and actually charges faster than the bx4z.

    I'm guessing this is due to a combination of Toyota's inexperience with EVs and having to rely on inferior components.

    Interestingly enough, there was a review of the bz4x on SavageGeese's youtube channel, and a discussion of same on Reddit. In there, the goose himself stated that his contacts within Toyota knew "they had a turd on their hands" with the bz4x, but it was all they had to tide them over for a few years. As soon as they have something better, the turd will be dropped.
     
  5. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    Having worked for Toyota and had the opportunity to work in Engineering for a while and seen some of their research work - there are things that they have been working on for decades before they come to fruition - Their prior research and development assistance in Waterborne Automotive Paint and Powder Coating Automotive Painting Technology as an example- one can assume there are things they are working on now that you couldn't imagine in your most creative and wildest dreams.

    Did you know Toyota Has their own Engineering School in Japan?
    Toyota Technological Institute (toyota-ti.ac.jp)

    Robotics | Toyota Research Institute (tri.global)

    Did you know they have a Campus right here in the US?
    TTIC

    Did you know a College has a complete course of Technical Study funded and created by Toyota right here in the US
    Toyota invests $1.7 million in Kentucky universities for engineering (courier-journal.com)

    Who We Are | University of Kentucky College of Engineering (uky.edu)

    Did you know Toyota has a Technical Trade institute right here in the US to turn out Skilled Technicians ready to go right work after graduation?
    Technician Training

    Did you know Toyota has built/building it own futuristic city to test autonomous vehicles and AI products?
    CES 2020: Toyota is building a 'smart' city to test AI, robots and self-driving cars - CNN Style
     
    #25 John321, Apr 7, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2023
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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I’ve organized two tours of the Georgetown plant … an engineer’s Disneyland tour. It is well worth the time spent. The Honda plant is boring.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    This is all well and good. However, it comes down to what the business is doing, not what their engineers know.
    Toyota’s track record with public facing advertising, statements and lobbying dollars has been … hostile/dismissive towards EVs (other than FCEVs).

    I hope that Toyota really has seen the light, that they do put their know how and manufacturing prowess behind EVs.
    I am hopeful, but skeptical.
     
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  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    What? You don’t mean the ‘self charging EVs?’

    Bob Wilson
     
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  9. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    I don't remember this specific 'self charging EVs' being said by Toyota.
    Also by Nissan Nissan E-POWER Cars - Advice and Benefits | Nissan
    Can you please give source?
     
  10. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Sorry about the PiP. I traded my Prime in on a Bolt EUV. Man, I really like that car. We took a 2900 mile trip to Michigan last fall. Yes, charging was kind of slow, but if you sync the meals and charges, it winds up not taking much more time than syncing meals and fill-ups in a gasser. You just have to plan and be patient. But since almost all our driving is local, this thing is a treat. And it's way more efficient than a BZ4X, not to mention cheaper to buy.
     
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  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    No problem:


    The original YouTube with this claim was withdrawn. It showed a Tesla in front of Superchargers and asked 'Can you afford to wait?' But now the "Self Charging" claim is used to justify hybrid cars. Thanks to Mr. Google, you can find echos of these claims with the search term "self driving."


    Bob Wilson
     
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  12. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    "Self-charging hybrid" is definitely not "self-charging EV", AFAIK
     
  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Of corse it's not self charging. It was a dishonest marketing gimmick to try to deflect sales away from Electric cars. Just like their multiple ads saying that Electric cars are for people that have 4 hours to waste.

    Toyota-anti-ev-advertising-e1560767491606.jpg

    Ironically that's about the same amount of time it can easily take for charging Prius PHEV's.
    The good news is that they finally ousted their CEO that was leading the anti-ev charge (no pun intended)
    Not to say the other manufacturers weren't involved in these kinds of shenanigans. But the other guys simply cut bait sooner w/ trying to kill EV's - & for varying reasons. Volkswagen comes to mind and their dieselgate fiasco.
    .
     
    #33 hill, Apr 8, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2023
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  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Roger that:
    I showed them! Traded in my 2017 Prius Prime for a Tesla Model 3.

    On a serious note, the latest Prius Prime is priced at Tesla Model 3 territory. Many of the worst aspects have been improved.

    Bob Wilson
     
  15. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    You mean they have improved the price? ;)
     
  16. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Son inquired. 12 month wait. Needs plug-in in next two weeks. SOL. Actually considered a Kia EV. Why can Kia make enough and Toyota can't? Management.
     
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    He might try Tesla. They sell used too.

    Bob Wilson
     
  18. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    @bwilson4web, what is your observed mi/kWh on your standard-range-plus Model 3? You have never answered it.

    I average about 5.0 mi/kWh (× 33.705 kWh/ge ≈ 170 mpge) on my Gen 4 Prius Prime.

    Useable BEV battery capacity (kWh) = 33.705 × BEV range (mi) / mpge
     
    #38 Gokhan, Apr 10, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2023
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    It varies:
    • 180-220 Wh/mi - typically around Huntsville, 55 F up to 90 F
    • 250-330 Wh/mi - Interstate speeds, 70-75 mph, 50 F. Below 50 F, the kWh/mi goes up rapidly especially into a headwind
    March 6-8, I drove to Las Vegas NV. The segment from Huntsville AL to Albuquerque NM fighting headwinds and temperatures below 55 F:
    • 1,302 mi
    • 365 kWh
    • 280 Wh/mi
    Total Huntsville AL to Las Vegas NV, fighting headwinds and significant temperatures below freezing:
    • 1,888 mi
    • 525 kWh, $166
    • 278 Wh/mi
    upload_2023-4-10_3-35-15.png

    upload_2023-4-10_3-36-41.png
    There were 15-20 mph headwinds along the whole route.

    upload_2023-4-10_3-57-27.png

    Bob Wilson
     

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    #39 bwilson4web, Apr 10, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2023
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  20. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Those mi/kWh numbers (multiply mi/kWh by 33.705 kWh/ge to get the mpge numbers) are not bad at all. They seem comparable to what you would get with the Prius Prime.

    Why did you do cross-country? What did you do in Vegas?