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Toyota Takes Cautious Approach On 'Plug In' Hybrid Development

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by nginoza, Oct 22, 2007.

  1. nginoza

    nginoza Junior Member

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    Toyota Takes Cautious Approach
    On 'Plug In' Hybrid Development
    By JOSEPH B. WHITE
    October 22, 2007 9:33 a.m.

    TOYOTA CITY – Toyota Motor Corp. is taking a "step by step" approach to developing so-called plug-in hybrid electric vehicles, and executives Monday outlined a more cautious strategy than rival General Motors Corp. for using lithium-ion batteries to power hybrid cars for longer distances on electricity alone.

    GM, in a series of public announcements, has said it plans to bring an advanced hybrid vehicle called the Chevrolet Volt to the U.S. market by 2010. The Volt concept shown by GM at the Detroit auto show earlier this year would use lithium-ion batteries to operate for as many as 40 miles on electricity alone. GM has promoted the Volt concept and its aggressive timetable as part of a broader effort to burnish its image as an auto industry green technology leader.

    GM executives have expressed frustration that Toyota, through its aggressive marketing of the Toyota Prius hybrid electric vehicle, has overshadowed GM and diverted attention from Toyota's substantial sales of sport-utility vehicles and pickups that in many cases have lower mileage ratings than competing GM models.

    GM's aggressive promotion of the Volt concept coincides with what promises to be a bruising debate in the U.S. Congress over proposals to significantly increase the fuel economy standards for cars and light trucks sold in the U.S., known as Corporate Average Fuel Economy or CAFE standards. GM and Toyota are allied in opposition to proposals to move both car and truck fuel economy to as much as 35 miles per gallon.

    When it comes to lithium-ion batteries and plug-in hybrids, Toyota executives are mapping a far more conservative public strategy than GM, and Monday, executives involved in Toyota's advanced vehicle strategy made no apologies for doing so and poured cold water on some of GM's claims for its Volt technology.

    "We have to expand the market for existing hybrid systems that we have now," said Yoshitaka Asakura, project general manager in Toyota's hybrid vehicle system-engineering division in a briefing for reporters at Toyota offices here.

    Mr. Asakura said Toyota is concerned that many customers may not accept a plug-in hybrid electric car that has to be recharged every day, despite the enthusiasm for the plug-in hybrid concept from environmental groups and from a relatively small group of electric-vehicle enthusiasts.

    "People who took interest in electric vehicles are showing interest in plug-in" vehicles, Mr. Asakura said, through a translator. "But my wife does not accept charging [the vehicle] every day."

    Bill Reinert, national manager for the advanced technologies group at Toyota's U.S. sales arm, said adapting a hybrid vehicle so it can run for 20 miles on electricity alone could cost about $10,000 with current technology. "We are aware there is some market" at that cost level, Mr. Reinert said. But Toyota wants to "understand where is the fat spot in the market. Is it $1,500? Is it $2,000? Is it $3,000" above the price of a current Toyota Prius hybrid.

    Toyota plans to ship to two California universities a small number of Prius cars modified to work as plug in hybrids using nickel-metal-hydride batteries. Those vehicles will be evaluated starting this fall. But Mr. Asakura and Yoshihiko Masuda, managing officer overseeing new engine development and fuel-cell system engineering, declined to say when Toyota might offer plug in hybrids for sale to consumers. They also wouldn't offer a timetable for producing hybrids using lithium-ion batteries.

    "Step by step we will take the needed time" to assure that lithium ion battery technology can meet Toyota's reliability standards, Mr. Masuda said.

    Lithium-ion batteries are commonly used now to power lap top computers and other small consumer appliances. But overheating lithium-ion laptop batteries have been blamed recently for a small number of fires. Auto industry executives have expressed concern about the tendency of lithium-ion batteries to overheat, and GM has said it is reviewing a number of different lithium-ion technologies before settling on batteries for the Volt.

    Toyota's Mr. Asakura expressed skepticism about the concept of a plug-in hybrid car that would run on battery power only for 40 miles – the idea central to the Chevrolet Volt concept. Batteries powerful enough to achieve that would fill up the trunk of a car, he said.

    Instead, Toyota is pursuing a different concept, he said. Toyota is looking at using batteries to power the car on electricity for short bursts, alternating with power from the gasoline engine. He said Toyota believes plug-in hybrids could operate in electric only mode for about 10 to 20 miles.
     
  2. paulccullen

    paulccullen New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nginoza @ Oct 22 2007, 07:29 AM) [snapback]528806[/snapback]</div>
    But a PHEV doesn't have to be plugged in, in which case it works as a "normal" hybrid (perhaps with slightly decreased FE due to the extra battery weight).

    The hybid premium (difference between a hybrid and regular version of a vehicle) was said to be around $3K. I'd pay another $3K to have PHEV.
     
  3. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(paulccullen @ Oct 22 2007, 08:50 AM) [snapback]528816[/snapback]</div>
    Yes, but the vehicle they are talking of has twice the batteries of the "hybrid Premium" ones you are talking of. So add another, what, $2000?
    So we're talking of $5000 more for the "Prius double battery hybrid". That will give up to 15 km on electric only. According to Toyota. Add some more for lower production and the charger (many people, even on these forums, are not able to "plug in" so sales will suffer), and you probably get, what, $6000 more? So add $3000 to the current Prius retail cost.

    If you want the full meal deal of 30-40 km on electric only, as GM proposes, then add, what, $9000? Add to that the "low production premium" (most people will not want to pay that much more for such a limited benefit and will not be able to plug in so sales will be low), and you will get to the $10,000 extra Toyota is talking of. Add $7000 to the current Prius cost.

    Any time you reduce the number of customers, you add extra cost due to lower production.

    Funny how these figures come close to the aftermarket plugin Prius, isn't it?
     
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    OP please provide links to stories like this.
     
  5. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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