Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hybrid

Re: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hy

That's the plan. Unless the C is really awesome.

 

Re: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hy

This story deserves a link: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hybrids

 

Re: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hy

If it looks like it will be then I wait. My Gen2 can last another 5 years.

 

Re: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hy

True. As long as the inverter and transaxle hold up. I'm not worried about replacing the traction battery as those are cheap and easy.

 

Re: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hy

wow! they are getting 42% out of Stage 1 in testing at the moment. 38% to 42% doesn't sound much but it is 10% improvement if you stick it in current Gen III instead getting 50-55MPG you'd be getting 55-60.

If you get other improvements (most importantly higher capacity and charge/discharge rate battery) GEN IV will have EPA ratings above 60 for sure.

 

Re: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hy

Wow, it looks like Gen4 will get a nice boost in MPG.

 

Re: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hy

I'm waiting for the 6G Prius. Rumour has it it drives itself

 

Re: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hy

Toyota shouldn't wait for 4G to put this engine. Just drop it into Prius C!!

 

Re: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hy

7G goes to work for you and makes toast.

I'm glad I was wrong that Toyota had run out of "easy" gains, maybe they can keep bumping the mileage on these things after all! I'd rather see cost come down, though and/or more size. If you run the numbers 50 mpg is so good and 60 is only 20% more distance on an already incredibly efficient platform, the cost of running it would barely be lower for most.

 

Re: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hy

You mean this?
Video: Google's self-driving Prius squeals its way around coned track | PriusChat

 

Re: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hy

Well - the question is - what is the current efficiency of gasoline engines from other manufacturers?

I mean, what they are talking about are not necessarily radical changes in engine design - Toyota is known for quality - generically speaking, but not for excellency in gasoline engine design (let's not even talk about diesel...).

What I mean is, this is coming from a company not expert in standard engine design - the best engines are coming from other companies (in terms of efficiency, power per cubic centimetre of displacement, torque, etc....).
And unfortunately there is not a single reference to the efficiency of a 1.8L gasoline engine from another manufacturer or a "typical industry" value.

Good that they are doing it, certainly - but how much better are they or will they be, compared to what is out there?

 

Re: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hy

Typical late model automotive ICE thermal efficiency under best operating conditions is 30-35%.

Engine efficiency isn't usually stated in %. More often it is in terms of work per mass of fuel. In US customary units, lb of fuel/(hp hr), In SI it's usually g fuel/(kW hr)

With those values and knowledge of the energy content of your fuel, you can calculate thermal efficiency.

Brake specific fuel consumption - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Prius engine efficiency is already in diesel territory. Can you give an example of a European gasoline engine that can match it for thermal efficiency?

 

Re: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hy

All sounded good until I looked it up. The price and MPG is nasty!


2011 Lexus LS 600h

• Base retail price: $111,350
• Fuel economy: 19 city / 23 hwy
• Base engine: 5.0L V8
• Maximum driving range: 510 miles

uhmmm. *<thinking to myself tapping my forehead with my index finger>... "How much fuel could I buy with $111,350.00???"

 

Re: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hy

Peak efficiency of the ICE in Prius is ~ 38%, but the outstanding metric is AVERAGE efficiency over a drive-cycle of somewhere in the 33 - 35% range. Find me another manufacturer who comes even close (except Ford with its HSD cars.)

 

Re: Toyota targeting thermal efficiency of more than 45% for next-generation gasoline engines for hy

You caught me in a fault in my post. I actually wrote faster than I could think what I wanted to say.
Toyota's normal gasoline engines are nothing to speak of - as far as I know. When I look at the fuel consumption of, say, an Auris 1.3L with avg combined of 5.9L/100km with 99HP - I am not led to believe that it is the best engine ever. And the 1.4L diesel is even worse. 90HP for a combined of 5.7L/100km....
Then I check the 330i with a 3L gasoline [ame="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N53"]engine[/ame] with 272HP, 320Nm, and a combined of 7.4L/100km (here - further down in the section "Benzinmotoren" - you need to expand the section) and I am like - wow.

The point though is that all these numbers don't mean much in terms of thermal efficiency as you mentioned - these are not BSFC numbers...

Nevertheless - the Prius 3 is 38% efficiency - based on the table in Wikipedia, the best gasoline engines can go up to 36% - I don't see a huge difference. Whether then this efficiency is not wasted and used to the best to get the highest MPG, that is another story - and this is where Toyota, in the gasoline realm, is kicking butt. German diesels are losing efficiency getting power to the wheels (e.g. no optimzed aerodynamics for the sake of aestethics, no start-stop, accessory belts, etc. etc.etc.)

My biggest "complaint" was that the article was so generic and so one-sided, that one cannot really appreciate what it is being said. How much better is 45%? what is the BSFC of other engines? what does the normal Toyota gasoline engine have for a BSFC (without all the optimisations the one of the Prius has)?

So now it more clear to me that the Prius engine is at the bleeding edge of efficiency today and can use most of it. Other engines might be as efficient (see the BMW engine), but cannot really put that into work (e.g. overall weight, non fuel reduction friendly implementations - I mean, who wants to save fuel on a car made to run at 250km/h on the German autobahn???!? ) and loses it down the road reaching the wheels...

So, if Toyota achieves 45% on the engine for the hybrids (to which it wants to convert most of its fleet, if I am not wrong, in the next years), we can likely see avg fuel consumptions of 3.5L/100km or lower on cars as big as the Prius in the near future (next 3-5 years).